And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Boltnut]

The bigger point you are missing that in Harbaughs offense the TE is the #2 wr. Plus Harbaugh is pretty high on QJ and I'm pretty sure he will have him playing right this year. I would be surprised if they even pick a wr in this years draft.

Not in the NFL w/49ers.
Vernon Davis was the #3 WR... behind Anquan Boldin and Mario Manningham.

I think the bigger point is... Jim Harbaugh's offenses are generally more balanced. He'll run the ball more than we've seen in quite a while.
"Everybody feeds" is what he says IIRC.

I agree, I think Harbaugh likes QJ more than 99% of the posters here.
IMO, QJ wasn't used correctly by Kellen Moore. QJ crushed Michigan in 2022. Jim won't forget that. Hopefully, Jim uses QJ properly.
So now... you have an offense that will run the ball more. You have a #1 WR that consistently catches 100+ catches per year. A young, undeveloped WR that Jim seems to recognize his potential. And an under-used Joshua Palmer who has outplayed most of the WR's drafted his same year... Oh, and don't forget the #30 pass defense last year... that is losing several starters to free agency.

Does this really scream TE@#5 for you...?
By all means, get a TE. But if you can, trade back and help that suck-ola defense.
Please just take a moment to consider it...

[Go Chargers go]

Has there ever been a TE picked at #5? Can you imagine Harbaugh going TE at 5 and then have to use him to block most of the season. TE is not the top Priority and most teams picking in top 10 have many holes to fill.

[sonorajim]

Not in the NFL w/49ers.
Vernon Davis was the #3 WR... behind Anquan Boldin and Mario Manningham.

I think the bigger point is... Jim Harbaugh's offenses are generally more balanced. He'll run the ball more than we've seen in quite a while.
"Everybody feeds" is what he says IIRC.

I agree, I think Harbaugh likes QJ more than 99% of the posters here.
IMO, QJ wasn't used correctly by Kellen Moore. QJ crushed Michigan in 2022. Jim won't forget that. Hopefully, Jim uses QJ properly.
So now... you have an offense that will run the ball more. You have a #1 WR that consistently catches 100+ catches per year. A young, undeveloped WR that Jim seems to recognize his potential. And an under-used Joshua Palmer who has outplayed most of the WR's drafted his same year... Oh, and don't forget the #30 pass defense last year... that is losing several starters to free agency.

Does this really scream TE@#5 for you...?
By all means, get a TE. But if you can, trade back and help that suck-ola defense.
Please just take a moment to consider it...

BPA. Best Player available in the 1st. Root around for "need" guys with the next 6 - 8 picks. We have some of the best evaluators of current and college talent that the Chargers have ever had. Let them work.
Re: the "suck-ola" defense, it was in large part coaching. Much like the suck-ola OL, run game, 3rd quarter offense, etc etc.

[Chargers8491]

BPA. Best Player available in the 1st. Root around for "need" guys with the next 6 - 8 picks. We have some of the best evaluators of current and college talent that the Chargers have ever had. Let them work.
Re: the "suck-ola" defense, it was in large part coaching. Much like the suck-ola OL, run game, 3rd quarter offense, etc etc.

I agree with all this. I don't the both lines are as bad as they looked last year. Part of it was bad coaching and part of it was Staley lost some of the players. Take BPA @5 and trade back in rnds 2-3 to pick up more picks to find "need" guys.

[Boltnut]

BPA. Best Player available in the 1st. Root around for "need" guys with the next 6 - 8 picks. We have some of the best evaluators of current and college talent that the Chargers have ever had. Let them work.
Re: the "suck-ola" defense, it was in large part coaching. Much like the suck-ola OL, run game, 3rd quarter offense, etc etc.

BPA is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, #5-12 are really close... especially when you consider how they will be used.

For example, reading most posters you can assume that most people believe there is a huge drop-off between Brock Bowers and the #10 pick. But I look at Jim Harbaugh's offenses @Stanford, 49ers, and Michigan. Then I look at our own talent on the roster. I also consider the college program scheme they're coming from. I look @the talent the player has. I compare them to alternatives (at all other positions). I compare them to alternative TE's in later rounds. When I do that, I don't see much of a drop-off.

Harbaugh's offenses are very balanced. "Everybody eats". His receivers have similar numbers, even if the talent level between is greater. He likes to run the ball. At Stanford it was a 45/55 run heavy offense. At SF, it appears to be a 55/45 pass/run. At Michigan, it was about 50/50... a little more pass-centric with McCarthy... but still very balanced. This trend would limit Bowers ceiling.

The Chargers have Keenan Allen at WR#1. 100+ catches is expected... even when he missed 4 games this year. Joshua Palmer is another very good receiver... even though his numbers are stunted with Allen being the favorite target. Jim seems to believe in QJ. I would imagine Jim will want to feed him if he wants QJ to grow and develop. Derius Davis is another WR that didn't get many chances in Kellen Moore's offense. Will he only be used as a kick returner...? It's hard to believe that his down field speed will be ignored another year. While Parham is not a guy you count on every play, he certainly has his value in the redzone. I would be very surprised to see Bowers get 50+ catches with the Chargers.

Georgia's offense was also very balanced. 2 good RB's. 3 good WR's... one them was a RB/WR hybrid. Their offensive line was one of the best in college football. They could run, they could pass. There was a lot of pre-snap motion and shifts. They created mis-matches and spread the ball everywhere. You will see Brock wide open on many plays... and wasn't precise route running that got him there. A lot of his YAC can be contributed to Kirby Smart's offensive play-calling. Other times, he's getting favorable matchups with slower LB's or smaller CB's and safeties. His 75-yard TD run came against an over-matched Kent State club that didn't adjust defensively. Is he very fast and athletic for a TE...? You betcha! Will he get those mismatches in the NFL to the extent he got them at Georgia...? Man... everbody's fast and big in the NFL...

The talent is there. Very good hands, very good speed for a TE. Runs tough after the catch and has nice burst into/out of his breaks. I never put TE's in my top-10. I think he's top-10. You will never hear me use the word generational... so I won't use it here.

Too many here are sleeping on the other alternatives at other positions. I'm not sure if that is based on "experts" devaluations or if they are simply building an argument for "their" favorite player[s]. My post is already way too long so I will simply post my players @6-12. I can argue specifics if you want: Alt, Fashanu, Latu, Turner, Kool-Aid, Odunze, Nabers.

When I look at alternative TE's I see a drop off. Most don't compare to other players until the late 3rd and early 4th rounds. Then I start seeing value. Jaheim Bell, Ben Sinnott, Cade Stover, and Dallin Holker would all fit into a Jim Harbaugh offense.

[sonorajim]

BPA is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, #5-12 are really close... especially when you consider how they will be used.

For example, reading most posters you can assume that most people believe there is a huge drop-off between Brock Bowers and the #10 pick. But I look at Jim Harbaugh's offenses @Stanford, 49ers, and Michigan. Then I look at our own talent on the roster. I also consider the college program scheme they're coming from. I look @the talent the player has. I compare them to alternatives (at all other positions). I compare them to alternative TE's in later rounds. When I do that, I don't see much of a drop-off.

Harbaugh's offenses are very balanced. "Everybody eats". His receivers have similar numbers, even if the talent level between is greater. He likes to run the ball. At Stanford it was a 45/55 run heavy offense. At SF, it appears to be a 55/45 pass/run. At Michigan, it was about 50/50... a little more pass-centric with McCarthy... but still very balanced. This trend would limit Bowers ceiling.

The Chargers have Keenan Allen at WR#1. 100+ catches is expected... even when he missed 4 games this year. Joshua Palmer is another very good receiver... even though his numbers are stunted with Allen being the favorite target. Jim seems to believe in QJ. I would imagine Jim will want to feed him if he wants QJ to grow and develop. Derius Davis is another WR that didn't get many chances in Kellen Moore's offense. Will he only be used as a kick returner...? It's hard to believe that his down field speed will be ignored another year. While Parham is not a guy you count on every play, he certainly has his value in the redzone. I would be very surprised to see Bowers get 50+ catches with the Chargers.

Georgia's offense was also very balanced. 2 good RB's. 3 good WR's... one them was a RB/WR hybrid. Their offensive line was one of the best in college football. They could run, they could pass. There was a lot of pre-snap motion and shifts. They created mis-matches and spread the ball everywhere. You will see Brock wide open on many plays... and wasn't precise route running that got him there. A lot of his YAC can be contributed to Kirby Smart's offensive play-calling. Other times, he's getting favorable matchups with slower LB's or smaller CB's and safeties. His 75-yard TD run came against an over-matched Kent State club that didn't adjust defensively. Is he very fast and athletic for a TE...? You betcha! Will he get those mismatches in the NFL to the extent he got them at Georgia...? Man... everbody's fast and big in the NFL...

The talent is there. Very good hands, very good speed for a TE. Runs tough after the catch and has nice burst into/out of his breaks. I never put TE's in my top-10. I think he's top-10. You will never hear me use the word generational... so I won't use it here.

Too many here are sleeping on the other alternatives at other positions. I'm not sure if that is based on "experts" devaluations or if they are simply building an argument for "their" favorite player[s]. My post is already way too long so I will simply post my players @6-12. I can argue specifics if you want: Alt, Fashanu, Latu, Turner, Kool-Aid, Odunze, Nabers.

When I look at alternative TE's I see a drop off. Most don't compare to other players until the late 3rd and early 4th rounds. Then I start seeing value. Jaheim Bell, Ben Sinnott, Cade Stover, and Dallin Holker would all fit into a Jim Harbaugh offense.

No need to argue about early picks. I've reviewed lots of opinions and videos.I'm happy to let the pros do their work. There are a LOT of options with this draft.
Looking forward very much to Hortiz actual choices / trades. I like Bowers but am fairly certain that I'm going to love our 2024 team with or without any specific player.

[Topcat]

We could easily see both the Raiders and Broncos take a QB in Round One. Aiden O'Connell isn't who they want to build around in Vegas, and Russell Wilson's stint in Denver is over. I'd love to see each of these teams take a Drew Lock, and then take three years to figure out it won't work.

All this with the Donks and the Raiders maybe moving up for a QB could light a fire under a team like the Falcons, who may be forced to trade up with us to nab the guy they have targeted before THEY do...or the Vikes...LET THE FEEDING FRENZY BEGIN...

[CanadianBoltFan]

Has there ever been a TE picked at #5? Can you imagine Harbaugh going TE at 5 and then have to use him to block most of the season. TE is not the top Priority and most teams picking in top 10 have many holes to fill.

Kyle Pitts went #4

[DerwinBosa]

Anybody we draft at 5 better be #5 worthy. Bosa was #3, has he been worthy? He is good when he is healthy, but he just isnt healthy near enough so id say he hasnt been #3 worthy, but Ekeker has made up for some of those not quite worthy picks.

We talk about value but what is the value? We do not have a TE and if Bowers is THE guy you want, do you take a chance and trade down to 8 or 10 and maybe lose him if another team wants him too and then you lose that value to your team. Or just take him at #5? Do you feel better at #8? Id bet many would because we got an extra pick and i would like that too,..... but potentually losing him is the chance you take and if you lose him but are happy to get that 3rd rounder, which do you feel better about?

Me im feeling better that we got Bowers. We can also trade down in round 2 and get an extra pick or two.

If Bowers is the best player available you take him with the fifth overall pick. If he's as great as Tony Gonzalez and Joe Alt won't be better than Taylor Lewan (drafted 11th overall in 2014 and made three Pro Bowls in eight seasons) you draft Bowers. That goes for any position. If Bowers has a career like Vernon Davis (the sixth overall pick in 2006 who ended up being a good player and made two Pro Bowls), then no, I don't think he's worth a top five pick if we pass on players at more important positions who play at the same level. If you have to pick between an offensive tackle who starts 10 years and makes two Pro Bowls and a tight end who starts 10 years and makes two Pro Bowls, I'm taking the offensive tackle every time.

[DerwinBosa]

I bet you would have said drafting an RB at 12 last year was a no no. Well a team that made the Final 4 didn't care. They saw a special playmaker and used the 12 pick. Now they have a stud Gibbs who is a total difference maker to their offense for the foreseeable future.

There are exceptions.

Bowers is no Tebow.

And make no mistake TE is a need, the group we had last year sucks. TE is a staple of Harbaugh offenses.

They wouldn't have drafted Jahmyr Gibbs over Penei Sewell. I doubt they would have drafted Brock Bowers over Penei Sewell, either.

[DerwinBosa]

Color me skeptical. I heard a lot of the same about Pitts when he was drafted. Before him it was Vernon Davis and before him Kellen Winslow II.
Some of that is clearly the Falcons issues at QB, but I think they'd have been much better off with Waddle or Smith who were taken a few spots later (nevermind Chase).

The Falcons also passed on Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons, and Rashawn Slater to take the "generational talent" at tight end in that draft.

[DerwinBosa]

If Denver doesn't sign a vet QB then they will be trading up for one or if they don't trade up, will draft one @ 12. They may end up with Nix it McCarthy tho. Penix probably falls to round 2. Some think he will fall further.

Bruce Feldman, the college football writer, said Penix could go undrafted because of medical concerns. I think Penix will probably get drafted in the mid-rounds.