And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

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  • CanadianBoltFan
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jul 2022
    • 6606
    • White Rock, BC Canada
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    Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

    BPA is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, #5-12 are really close... especially when you consider how they will be used.

    For example, reading most posters you can assume that most people believe there is a huge drop-off between Brock Bowers and the #10 pick. But I look at Jim Harbaugh's offenses @Stanford, 49ers, and Michigan. Then I look at our own talent on the roster. I also consider the college program scheme they're coming from. I look @the talent the player has. I compare them to alternatives (at all other positions). I compare them to alternative TE's in later rounds. When I do that, I don't see much of a drop-off.

    Harbaugh's offenses are very balanced. "Everybody eats". His receivers have similar numbers, even if the talent level between is greater. He likes to run the ball. At Stanford it was a 45/55 run heavy offense. At SF, it appears to be a 55/45 pass/run. At Michigan, it was about 50/50... a little more pass-centric with McCarthy... but still very balanced. This trend would limit Bowers ceiling.

    The Chargers have Keenan Allen at WR#1. 100+ catches is expected... even when he missed 4 games this year. Joshua Palmer is another very good receiver... even though his numbers are stunted with Allen being the favorite target. Jim seems to believe in QJ. I would imagine Jim will want to feed him if he wants QJ to grow and develop. Derius Davis is another WR that didn't get many chances in Kellen Moore's offense. Will he only be used as a kick returner...? It's hard to believe that his down field speed will be ignored another year. While Parham is not a guy you count on every play, he certainly has his value in the redzone. I would be very surprised to see Bowers get 50+ catches with the Chargers.

    Georgia's offense was also very balanced. 2 good RB's. 3 good WR's... one them was a RB/WR hybrid. Their offensive line was one of the best in college football. They could run, they could pass. There was a lot of pre-snap motion and shifts. They created mis-matches and spread the ball everywhere. You will see Brock wide open on many plays... and wasn't precise route running that got him there. A lot of his YAC can be contributed to Kirby Smart's offensive play-calling. Other times, he's getting favorable matchups with slower LB's or smaller CB's and safeties. His 75-yard TD run came against an over-matched Kent State club that didn't adjust defensively. Is he very fast and athletic for a TE...? You betcha! Will he get those mismatches in the NFL to the extent he got them at Georgia...? Man... everbody's fast and big in the NFL...

    The talent is there. Very good hands, very good speed for a TE. Runs tough after the catch and has nice burst into/out of his breaks. I never put TE's in my top-10. I think he's top-10. You will never hear me use the word generational... so I won't use it here.

    Too many here are sleeping on the other alternatives at other positions. I'm not sure if that is based on "experts" devaluations or if they are simply building an argument for "their" favorite player[s]. My post is already way too long so I will simply post my players @6-12. I can argue specifics if you want: Alt, Fashanu, Latu, Turner, Kool-Aid, Odunze, Nabers.

    When I look at alternative TE's I see a drop off. Most don't compare to other players until the late 3rd and early 4th rounds. Then I start seeing value. Jaheim Bell, Ben Sinnott, Cade Stover, and Dallin Holker would all fit into a Jim Harbaugh offense.
    Rather have Theo Johnson than all of those TEs. I want some ceiling, enough plodders here

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    • CanadianBoltFan
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Jul 2022
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      Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

      The Falcons also passed on Penei Sewell, Micah Parsons, and Rashawn Slater to take the "generational talent" at tight end in that draft.
      Kyle Pitts career can not be judged in this light ..yet. As a rookie he became the 2nd TE in NFL history to get 1000 yards. Mike Ditka was the only other one. Then he fell victim to a fucking idiot named Arthur Smith who was clueless how to use him just as he was clueless how to get the most of a stud like Bijan Robinson. Pitts has also never had an NFL caliber QB.

      Zac Robinson the new OC, who learned under McVay, is there now with one of his mandates being get the most our of Kyle Pitts. Lets wait and see what happens now before we write off Kyle Pitts. Pitts is 23 years old.

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      • Fouts2herbert
        Charger Fan since 1978
        • Sep 2021
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        Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post

        Kellen Winslow II the rapist went 6
        why are we obsessing over draft position? Kellen Winslow senior went #13 over all but if folks could go back and redraft he might go a lot higher than 13...what matters is where these guys land...Bowers would be a great pick at #5 not just because he's one of the best TE prospects in the last 10 years, but because of where he would be going, he'd be going to play with a top 5 QB and a top 5 HC that understands the value of a stud TE to the QB position...
        "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

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        • Fouts2herbert
          Charger Fan since 1978
          • Sep 2021
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          Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post

          I dont like that word generational. Its thrown around too often.

          Pitts was not that. Pitts was a bigger Mike Wiliiams with more speed. He wasnt and isnt that good a blocker but he has talent. He had over 1000 yards as a rookie with Matt Ryan then he was shackled with rookie QBs that arent that good. He will put up better numbers but he isnt a true in line TE.
          hard to be generational anything when surrounded by shit and used incorrectly, yep, he's not a traditional TE but he doesn't have to be, Pitts is a fucking beast of an offensive weapon, sometimes it just takes the right people to unlock a guy's potential, Pitts is more than a traditional TE and that's not a bad thing, he's a mismatch nightmare for any defense that will have to be game planned for if the right OC is utilizing him the best possible way, things are about to get a lot better for Pitts, between Robinson getting hired as the OC in ATL and a potential trade for Justin Fields, things are looking up...I really believe that ATL has a play for better QB, otherwise why in the hell would Robinson go there? promises were made...
          "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

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          • Bolt4Knob
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Dec 2019
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            Originally posted by Fouts2herbert View Post

            why are we obsessing over draft position? Kellen Winslow senior went #13 over all but if folks could go back and redraft he might go a lot higher than 13...what matters is where these guys land...Bowers would be a great pick at #5 not just because he's one of the best TE prospects in the last 10 years, but because of where he would be going, he'd be going to play with a top 5 QB and a top 5 HC that understands the value of a stud TE to the QB position...
            I would have zero concerns about drafting Bowers at 5. Unique talent. Would create mismatches from the TE position. The draft is deeper in WR -- plus with Allen coming back (it seems), with Palmer has improved and who knows what QJ can bring -- TE is also more of a NEED than WR.

            Bowers unless the Falcons really want pick 5. Minnesota is too far away to have worry about six picks and what players will be there.

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            • Boltjolt
              Dont let the PBs fool ya
              • Jun 2013
              • 30978
              • Henderson, NV
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              Originally posted by Fouts2herbert View Post

              why are we obsessing over draft position? Kellen Winslow senior went #13 over all but if folks could go back and redraft he might go a lot higher than 13...what matters is where these guys land...Bowers would be a great pick at #5 not just because he's one of the best TE prospects in the last 10 years, but because of where he would be going, he'd be going to play with a top 5 QB and a top 5 HC that understands the value of a stud TE to the QB position...
              IDK, ask the ones that think top 10 is too high for a TE. Safety gets that notion too but Sean Taylor was worth it. Just had his life cut short.
              1. Mason Taylor TE LSU
              2. Quinshon Judkins RB Ohio st
              3. Kyle Kennard Edge So. Carolina
              ✓
              4. CJ West DT Indiana
              5. Don'te Thornton WR Tennessee
              6. Zah Frazier CB UTSA
              6. Jarquez Hunter RB Auburn
              6. Jay Higgins LB Iowa
              6. Hunter Wohler S Wisconsin
              7. Carson Vinson OT Alabama

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              • Fouts2herbert
                Charger Fan since 1978
                • Sep 2021
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                Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

                I would have zero concerns about drafting Bowers at 5. Unique talent. Would create mismatches from the TE position. The draft is deeper in WR -- plus with Allen coming back (it seems), with Palmer has improved and who knows what QJ can bring -- TE is also more of a NEED than WR.

                Bowers unless the Falcons really want pick 5. Minnesota is too far away to have worry about six picks and what players will be there.
                the vikings would have to send us a crazy haul, and of course you make that trade with the understanding that you are not going to get bowers...that's a tough pill to swallow unless they know that they'd be guaranteed one of several players in their cluster of top defenders available, maybe a corner, a edge, or a defensive tackle...
                "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

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                • Fouts2herbert
                  Charger Fan since 1978
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                  Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post

                  IDK, ask the ones that think top 10 is too high for a TE. Safety gets that notion too but Sean Taylor was worth it. Just had his life cut short.
                  I can't get behind that type of thinking, so you limit your choice based on perceived positional values? I understand getting value in drafts, I do, but bowers is the 5th or 6th rated on almost every single board I've seen so far, it's not like drafting him at five would be a reach, the guy is legitimately considered one of the best players available in this entire draft...
                  "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

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                  • Bolt4Knob
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Dec 2019
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                    Originally posted by Fouts2herbert View Post

                    the vikings would have to send us a crazy haul, and of course you make that trade with the understanding that you are not going to get bowers...that's a tough pill to swallow unless they know that they'd be guaranteed one of several players in their cluster of top defenders available, maybe a corner, a edge, or a defensive tackle...
                    The Vikings would be 450 per the points chart - their second is worth 480 - but I wouild need another pick - like a 4th rounder - that makes the value 550 - so over 20% value. If the Chargers have to flip them back a 5th - possibly could do that as that value would still be 500+ for a slot of 450
                    giving up a top 5 pick - has to be worth it

                    Looking at the board - players like Newton, the Penn State OT, Dallas Turner, maybe a WR falls

                    I think I would rather drop from 5 to 8 and get 3rd, 4th and a 2025 pick and still be in that top 8

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                    • Fouts2herbert
                      Charger Fan since 1978
                      • Sep 2021
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                      Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

                      The Vikings would be 450 per the points chart - their second is worth 480 - but I wouild need another pick - like a 4th rounder - that makes the value 550 - so over 20% value. If the Chargers have to flip them back a 5th - possibly could do that as that value would still be 500+ for a slot of 450
                      giving up a top 5 pick - has to be worth it

                      Looking at the board - players like Newton, the Penn State OT, Dallas Turner, maybe a WR falls

                      I think I would rather drop from 5 to 8 and get 3rd, 4th and a 2025 pick and still be in that top 8
                      that sounds pretty good to me, but to lose out on bowers is just kind of tough to even think about it, I'm already visualizing plays of herbert to bowers, controlling the clock with clutch third down conversions, the strong hands to win contested balls, the big play potential...I'm all in on Bowers at #5...it just makes too much sense and we've seen teams trade down countless times and the picks don't always pan out...

                      if they could bring in hunter Henry in FA I might think this over but I have no idea if the chargers will even have the cap to be aggressive in FA...
                      "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

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                      • Boltjolt
                        Dont let the PBs fool ya
                        • Jun 2013
                        • 30978
                        • Henderson, NV
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                        Originally posted by Fouts2herbert View Post

                        I can't get behind that type of thinking, so you limit your choice based on perceived positional values? I understand getting value in drafts, I do, but bowers is the 5th or 6th rated on almost every single board I've seen so far, it's not like drafting him at five would be a reach, the guy is legitimately considered one of the best players available in this entire draft...
                        I'll also mention that there was a pic posted here of Bowers in a Michigan uniform with Harbaugh and others. It was suggested since some senior bowl measurements came up shorter than they were listed and perhaps Bowers was going to measure under 6'4".

                        If you look at that picture, Harbaugh is said to be 6'3', and Bowers is taller than him by more than an inch and JH is wearing a hat.
                        Last edited by Boltjolt; 02-02-2024, 03:06 PM.
                        1. Mason Taylor TE LSU
                        2. Quinshon Judkins RB Ohio st
                        3. Kyle Kennard Edge So. Carolina
                        ✓
                        4. CJ West DT Indiana
                        5. Don'te Thornton WR Tennessee
                        6. Zah Frazier CB UTSA
                        6. Jarquez Hunter RB Auburn
                        6. Jay Higgins LB Iowa
                        6. Hunter Wohler S Wisconsin
                        7. Carson Vinson OT Alabama

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                        • blueman
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Jun 2013
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                          Not getting the argument Bowers coming to us means he’s coming to an established and successful O. Even with Herbert, our O kinda sucked, especially late in games (3rd quarter, anyone?). We also have a big hurdle with not winning one-score games. Could a player like Bowers help with that? Sure I can see the possibilities, maybe, hard telling, but so could a lot of the top talent in this draft, we need help everywhere. 5-12.

                          Trade down seems most prudent, more picks (especially the first few rounds) means more chances to land some good players.

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