Official 2019 Pre Draft Discussion

[Boltjolt]

Drafting is as much art as science. Talent is always good but is wasted in some players. Intelligence & attitude are big factors. Position & team fit matter.
Pro scouts usually get guys bracketed fairly close to where they should go but when the pick is on the clock, it's all about the eval work put in by the specific team. At 28,60, 91 we should get players who play a lot of snaps. Over the balance of the draft we should get players who improve "teams", position depth and may turn out to be gems.
My 1st rd cluster could include darn near any 1st rd talent right now. I'd like to see which way TT leans in FA choices first.

True that. Ranking players is an opinion, art, translation projection from college vs the NFL. Many things. Some coaches just fall in love with a guy and mess it all up lol.

AJ picking that LB in the second was a huge reach with late round talent, Cam Cameron picking Ted Ginn number 8...big reach. I had a 2nd round grade on him. Rey Maluaga was the talk of the draft,....I thought he was overhyped too.

QBs always overdrafted. I don't get into it like I used to but keep a side eye on it compared to all the time I use to put into it.
TT seems to be pretty good st it and hasn't really had any real reaches. You never hit on everyone, no GM does but he has done really well for us.

[Fleet]

Ugh Jonas Mouton. Terrible pick. lol

[Fleet]

Linebackers are the lifeblood of any defense. We havnt been great drafting them in the 21st century. Some of the recent guys have been decent. But a players best ability is his availability and we cant draft guys that can get through a season. I really like White and Nwosu. We need a MLB.

Shannon Taylor
Zeke Moreno
Carlos Polk
Ben Leber
Matt Wilhelm
Shawne Merriman
Tim Dobbins
Anthony Waters
Brandon Siler
Kevin Ellison
Larry English
Donald Butler
Andrew Gachkar
Jonas Mouton
Manto Te'o
Jerry Attaochu
Denzel Perryman
Josh Perry
Jatavis Brown
Uchena Nwosu
Kyzir White

[Boltjolt]

Ugh Jonas Mouton. Terrible pick. lol

Yeah that's him lol. Knew his name started with a M but couldn't think of it

[Steve]

Drafting is as much art as science. Talent is always good but is wasted in some players. Intelligence & attitude are big factors. Position & team fit matter.
Pro scouts usually get guys bracketed fairly close to where they should go but when the pick is on the clock, it's all about the eval work put in by the specific team. At 28,60, 91 we should get players who play a lot of snaps. Over the balance of the draft we should get players who improve "teams", position depth and may turn out to be gems.
My 1st rd cluster could include darn near any 1st rd talent right now. I'd like to see which way TT leans in FA choices first.

I agree, but I still think a big part of it will be stuff you hear this weekend. So much of scouting is like in Moneyball, where the scouts almost believe they can tell just by looking at a player. There is still some of that voodoo nonsense in scouting.

The 32 or 33-inch arm nonsense that was so popular back when we drafted Melvin Ingram was a big one. That was obviously crap, because almost overnight a bunch of double-digit sack guys appears almost out of nowhere that had 30-32 inch arms. Yet, I bet there are still a ton of scouts and some of the NFL Network crew who still spout that nonsense.

The other one to remmeber is Orlando Brown. He had one of the worst combines in combine history, which is saying something. But that didn't have much to do with his ability as a player, which he proved. He is the kinda kid we could use as a RT, and yet Ozzie is putting the cherry on the top of his 2nd hall of fame career in the NFL by getting this kid in the 3rd last year. I was down on the guy because when I watched film on him, he got beat across his face a lot when trying to run outside zone to the other side of the field. BUt he got in much better shape and didn't have much of a problem with it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26081504/ravens-ol-orlando-brown-cautions-critics-ahead-nfl-combine

The combine is a useful tool, but players aren't great because they do well in the underwear olympics. THey are great players because they can play. If their measurables don't match, the most obvious thing is maybe there is something wrong with the measured values. Usually, it is because the measured thing simply doesn't matchup to what a football does on the field.

I love watching the 40's at the combine, because so few of them actually have a clue as to how to run a 40. Watch how many weave back and forth across the lane. They add another 5 or even 10 yards to the run, all of which is being timed. The simplest thing any guy could do is simply run up one of the stripes, yet you almost never see anyone do it. Some of them love to save something to finish strong, which is a joke given how short a 40 is in terms of a sprint.

The combine if about medicals and interviews. The rest of it is just a chance to allow the coaches who have not had a chance to see the majority of players do something. Unless a player has a big worry about them, there is nothing that the player can possibly do that changes my opinion compared to watching them play football. If you have a guy who has a big concern, then watching something may remove or minimize that worry, but the rest of the tests are just abstractions of some real football quality, not a true measurement of it. Emmitt Smith was one of the slower RB in the draft the year he came out. Yet he broke more long runs than just about anyone. He had good quickness, but what it really says is that breaking long TD runs is a lot less about 40 times and a lot more about going North and South.

[Boltjolt]

40 time means little unless your run a awful one. Game speed is king but good speed is nice.
Much prefer the drill times, 3 cone,shuttle for agility and 10 yard splits as afr as speed goes. Rarely are they running a straight line on the field in the game unless running a fly route or break a rush up the gut untouched.

[blueman]

In case anybody had this guy on their draft board, likely drops now, maybe a late round flyer?

[Topcat]

Linebackers are the lifeblood of any defense. We havnt been great drafting them in the 21st century. Some of the recent guys have been decent. But a players best ability is his availability and we cant draft guys that can get through a season. I really like White and Nwosu. We need a MLB.

Shannon Taylor
Zeke Moreno
Carlos Polk
Ben Leber
Matt Wilhelm
Shawne Merriman
Tim Dobbins
Anthony Waters
Brandon Siler
Kevin Ellison
Larry English
Donald Butler
Andrew Gachkar
Jonas Mouton
Manto Te'o
Jerry Attaochu
Denzel Perryman
Josh Perry
Jatavis Brown
Uchena Nwosu
Kyzir White

Ellison...sad story...died at 31 last year...drafted in round SIX, then tried to hold out...

[Fleet]

Ellison...sad story...died at 31 last year...drafted in round SIX, then tried to hold out...

Yeah that was too bad. May he rest in peace.

[JOJAX85]

I agree, but I still think a big part of it will be stuff you hear this weekend. So much of scouting is like in Moneyball, where the scouts almost believe they can tell just by looking at a player. There is still some of that voodoo nonsense in scouting.

The 32 or 33-inch arm nonsense that was so popular back when we drafted Melvin Ingram was a big one. That was obviously crap, because almost overnight a bunch of double-digit sack guys appears almost out of nowhere that had 30-32 inch arms. Yet, I bet there are still a ton of scouts and some of the NFL Network crew who still spout that nonsense.

The other one to remmeber is Orlando Brown. He had one of the worst combines in combine history, which is saying something. But that didn't have much to do with his ability as a player, which he proved. He is the kinda kid we could use as a RT, and yet Ozzie is putting the cherry on the top of his 2nd hall of fame career in the NFL by getting this kid in the 3rd last year. I was down on the guy because when I watched film on him, he got beat across his face a lot when trying to run outside zone to the other side of the field. BUt he got in much better shape and didn't have much of a problem with it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...ad-nfl-combine

The combine is a useful tool, but players aren't great because they do well in the underwear olympics. THey are great players because they can play. If their measurables don't match, the most obvious thing is maybe there is something wrong with the measured values. Usually, it is because the measured thing simply doesn't matchup to what a football does on the field.

I love watching the 40's at the combine, because so few of them actually have a clue as to how to run a 40. Watch how many weave back and forth across the lane. They add another 5 or even 10 yards to the run, all of which is being timed. The simplest thing any guy could do is simply run up one of the stripes, yet you almost never see anyone do it. Some of them love to save something to finish strong, which is a joke given how short a 40 is in terms of a sprint.

The combine if about medicals and interviews. The rest of it is just a chance to allow the coaches who have not had a chance to see the majority of players do something. Unless a player has a big worry about them, there is nothing that the player can possibly do that changes my opinion compared to watching them play football. If you have a guy who has a big concern, then watching something may remove or minimize that worry, but the rest of the tests are just abstractions of some real football quality, not a true measurement of it. Emmitt Smith was one of the slower RB in the draft the year he came out. Yet he broke more long runs than just about anyone. He had good quickness, but what it really says is that breaking long TD runs is a lot less about 40 times and a lot more about going North and South.

Yeh the arm thing with Ingram astonished me. I went to his Pro Day at S. Carolina. He was running drills with the WRs... WELL! I didn't get in to the debates too much, because I never dreamed that he would fall to us. His versatility makes his game. We don't move him around enough in my opinion.

[wu-dai clan]

Yeh the arm thing with Ingram astonished me. I went to his Pro Day at S. Carolina. He was running drills with the WRs... WELL! I didn't get in to the debates too much, because I never dreamed that he would fall to us. His versatility makes his game. We don't move him around enough in my opinion.

I saw the vid of Super Melvin running that fake punt for a TD.

Then upon reading that he lined up at IDL pass rusher too, I was sold !

[beachcomber]

I agree, but I still think a big part of it will be stuff you hear this weekend. So much of scouting is like in Moneyball, where the scouts almost believe they can tell just by looking at a player. There is still some of that voodoo nonsense in scouting.

and.... eye resemble that remark,

will also add that while am not a metrics guy per se, there are some pretty fascinating articles (based on mathematical extrapolations and the like) out there, that I would be hesitant to discount too much....