Official 2015 Draft Discussion

[oneinchpunch]

USC's Williams is a stud

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

I agree that it takes time for NTs to develop. That is why Telesco should have drafted one in 2013, so that the developmental clock would be going into its third year next year. Had we kept Franklin in 2013, we would have bought such a 2013 drafted NT a year to develop.

The free agent NTs except for Soliai were pretty much crap going into this year and the Falcons paid way too much for Soliai even though he is a useful run stuffer and their run defense has improved from 31st in YPC against last year to 14th this year his addition.

If we drafted Shelton, I think Carrethers should and would likely start at least in the first half of 2015. I would expect Shelton to gain on Carrethers and ultimately to overtake him either late in year one or in year two. Lissemore is not a NT. He never was. I would keep him as a 3rd or emergency NT. Lissemore would be excellent 3-4 DE depth behind Liuget and/or an elite draft pick like Brown, who he might start over at first. Mathews would then also be quality depth and Reyes would be a pure pass rush specialist and nothing else.

It would be great to roll with those 7 DL players. We would be set.

Getting a more stout 3-4 DE and NT this offseason would be a fantastic development for our much beleaguered run defense.

I disagree if you think any top NT would have started the clock, they are all hit or miss prospects the metal make up plays a big roll all over the draft. Big lazy but physically talented does not a good player make. The heart, the drive and desire a long with discipline if far mor important to a good draft pick than being the latest...

[TTK]

Another thread hijacked by the same old worn out arguments...

[bonehead]

Another thread hijacked by the same old worn out arguments...

Yep, if only we drafted Nix we wouldn't have to read this over and over again

[Boltjolt]

Well again, there are only two NTs in the league that have played significant % of the defensive snaps his year and only four have gone over 50%. I think were fine with Carrethers and Lissiore. We need a DE much worse than a NT.



Dan Williams, Arizona: 38% (1st rd pick)
Brandon Williams, Baltimore: 50% (3rd rd pick)
Ahtyba Rubin, Cleveland: 41% (6th rd pick)
Letroy Guion, Green Bay: 50% (5th rd pick)
Ryan Pickett, Houston: 26% (1st rd pick)
Josh Chapman, Indianapolis: 36% (5th rd pick)
Dontari Poe, Kansas City: 89% (1st rd pick)
Vince Wilfork, New England: 74% (1st rd pick)
Paul Soliai, Atlanta; 46.9% (4th rd pick)
Cam Thomas, Pittsburgh; 47.1%(5th rd pick)
John Jenkins, New Orleans: 38% (3rd rd pick)
Damon Harrison, New York: 48% (UDFA)
Bennie Logan, Philadelphia: 56% (3rd rd pick)
Steve McLendon, Pittsburgh: 31% (UDFA)
Sean Lissemore, San Diego: 31% (7th rd pick)
Quinton Dial, San Francisco: 29% (5th rd pick)
Sammie Hill, Tennessee: 53% (4th rd pick)
Chris Baker, Washington: 48% (UDFA)

[Foxbatkllr]

Lol fuckng predictable stubborn Yuba can't even admit Te'o had a good game. He's a captain in denial when his ship is sinking. Everyone else is on lifeboats and the ship is halfway under water. Yuba's swearing it's still afloat.

[Boltjolt]

Lol fuckng predictable stubborn Yuba can't even admit Te'o had a good game. He's a captain in denial when his ship is sinking. Everyone else is on lifeboats and the ship is halfway under water. Yuba's swearing it's still afloat.

He is a Lawyer where you have convince yourself a client is innocent even even if you know he isnt.

You know the difference between a Stop sign and a lawyer?

Stop signs have skid marks in front of them.

[Bolt-O]

USC's Williams is a stud

He looked better than Khalil Mack did in his final college game. If he wasn't there, Nebraska may have scored 55.

[Steve]

The reality is that we need to upgrade at NT, one of the 3-4 DE positions (no more Reyes), ILB (no more Te'o except in pass coverage) and one of the OLB positions (when JJ leaves) versus the run going into next year. Carrethers has potential at NT, but Lissemore does not. Reyes occasionally makes plays versus the run, but is much more often a liability. Conner is solid, but not great in run defense. Te'o is a disaster versus the run. JJ is likely gone after this year and older now anyway. Tourek Williams sucks every ball on earth when it comes to anything other than special teams.

Without Liuget, Ingram and Conner, we would likely be the worst team in the NFL against the run. So yeah, we have a few problems there.

And no, it is not that teams are running wide against us. They are running right at us with success all too frequently and when they do not have success, it is typically because Liuget, Ingram or sometimes Conner made the play.

It is not that we are not quick enough. It is that we are not stout enough and not anywhere close to being stout enough. We play a 3-4 defense. We need bigger, stronger DL players to occupy blockers and bigger, stronger, more physical ILBs to make tackles. Where is our Godfrey or Spikes type player in the middle that stuffs the run? Conner is the closest we have, but he makes plays more so with speed than size and strength. All too frequently, we are soft, soft, soft with the clear exceptions of Liuget and Ingram.

Stop the run, force the pass and take advantage of our pass defense coverage advantages in known passing situations.

Brown would likely help as a starter over Reyes at 3-4 DE. Shelton would help at NT, but Carrethers might start over him initially.

Again, like always, no proof. Nothing but your own opinion. Which is fine, just state it as such.

TRy looking at the games we have played. IN games where we had a pass rush, the D helped us win. IN games where we didn't have a pass rush, we struggled. That has been true for several years. ANd how many plays have our smaller NT been pushed around? None that I can remember. Our DE can hardly be called stout (although some of them have their moments), but we don't typically give up that many yards up the middle. It is usually off tackle and outside. The only recent play that we gave up along run inside way Kapernick's long run, when our DL was in a 5 man rush (OLB are DL in our D) and Lissemore could get over to cover the DE gap. If anything that suggests we need smaller quicker NT (not something I necessarily think we should do).

Second, you don't think getting the whole D on the same page and better fundamentals wouldn't be more effective then totally getting new personnel? Seattle still prefers that approach, and their DL are generally smaller and quicker then ours, and they do a lot more 2 gapping then we do. You don't need excessive size to play football. It can help, but not if it is at the expense of quickness and leverage.


I also disagree that BRown cannot 2 gap. He is a leverage guy with good low strength and good quickness. HE can get under a blockers pad level and control him. HE may need some refinement, but all rookies do. I do think it is a waste to use him doing that, because he can make plays as a 1 gap player, and those win games. et him penetrate and tackle in the backfield. Liuget too.

Our 1998 Defense, was at the time the best run D in NFL history. Still one of the top 10 in NFL history. But they could rush the QB, where only OK in coverage and they couldn't stop teams from wearing them down. What was our record that year? And teams are a lot less defendant on the run no then now.

I haven't seen Shelton play since the Hawaii game, but he was not very good in that game. He must have gotten a lot better, but the funny thing is that his stats show he disappeared. So why do you think he is so great, other then the size potential? And how is giving a guy like Shelton a shot now a better chance then letting Carruthers a chance to play and develop? Because I really think he has great potential, plus we already have an effective NT to split time with him till he's ready.

If we do anything, it should be draft players high for the nickel and dime package, and the use the middle and late round for the "starting" D. When the 3rd down D is good (something that has also been part of the pass rush/no pass rush games), we are a more dominant game. We can't ignore run D, but there are other less drastic things to do then get a bunch of fatties.

[Fleet]

Honestly with how big a issue our MLB situation is i think the cheapest way to fix the problem is through the draft. If we do enough in free agency to beef up 2 spots on the OL we can probably wait until the 2nd or 3rd to get another good OL prospect. Its a really deep draft at OL most likely with underclassmen expected to come out. Grab an OG and OT in free agency. I still think Fluker would be a good OG with work. He needs a lot of work anyways. Let him get his hands on a guy in tight space and i think he will be successful.

I'd look long and hard at Mississippi States defensive captain Ben McKinney. Not only is he freak monster on the inside but he can also line up on the outside and rush the passer. So you can almost say we are drafting another OLB in the first but using him at ILB. lol He wont need to come off the field. I think he has a huge amount of value in the first round if he comes out. He is a massive ILB with scary speed.

One of my favorite players in the draft if he comes out. Im always a big fan of those guys that can cover a couple positions. Hes not the best coverage guy so line him up at OLB on pass downs and switch Ingram to MLB. They can be interchangeable. Good LB coach can work on his hand issues. Similar to Barr but at the MLB spot.

But if you want to fix the run defense issues at MLB hes probably the next Willis type player. Sideline to sideline run defender at 6'5 250.

[TABF]

Can (gamecock) and Erving (Seminole) w/1 & 2... Go ugly and stay away from the sexy pick.

[Formula 21]

Final draft order SD 17. KC18. Teams have same SOS @.512.