Official Chargers News - Injury Updates

[Sec-E4]

You amuse me. You make me laugh.
Yes, you're here to (Pesci-language deleted) amuse me.

Now, you listen to me.
Never rat on your friends, and always keep your mouth shut. - Jimmy Conway

Ugh, I'm off-topic again. I need to get transacted.

I always wondered what the movie "Good Fellas" would be like if Danny Devito played the roll of Tommy Devito. I would pay money to see the lost tape of that casting call

[Steve]

I completely get that Liuget and Reyes are the only 2 DL we have that can make the sort of negative plays that can stop drives and win games. They are the only guys with the sort of pass rush ability to provide the inside pass rush we need. And I get that if you had better talent around him, he would play better.

But how many big plays does he allow, when he dips his shoulder and allows himself to get blocked because he gets lazy with his technique. At some point the 50, 60, 70 yard runs that our DE allow cost us way more then we get from the handful of tackles for a loss and the handful of sacks he gets every year.

Coaches tend to focus on making big plays because those are the ones that change the course of a game. BUt there is no reason that Liuget has to allow those. It is just him being sloppy with his technique and trying to do too much. If people knock Butler for that, I don't see why Liuget gets a pass, other then it just proves that most people can't tell the difference between good OL/DL play and bad.

[Panamamike]

I completely get that Liuget and Reyes are the only 2 DL we have that can make the sort of negative plays that can stop drives and win games. They are the only guys with the sort of pass rush ability to provide the inside pass rush we need. And I get that if you had better talent around him, he would play better.

But how many big plays does he allow, when he dips his shoulder and allows himself to get blocked because he gets lazy with his technique. At some point the 50, 60, 70 yard runs that our DE allow cost us way more then we get from the handful of tackles for a loss and the handful of sacks he gets every year.

Coaches tend to focus on making big plays because those are the ones that change the course of a game. BUt there is no reason that Liuget has to allow those. It is just him being sloppy with his technique and trying to do too much. If people knock Butler for that, I don't see why Liuget gets a pass, other then it just proves that most people can't tell the difference between good OL/DL play and bad.

If your DE is costing runs of 50,60,70 yards as you suggest, the problem is most definately bigger than that position. Where is the LB pursuit....the Cbs, and safeties??? There is no defensive play/scheme that the entire outside run stop is soley the responsibility of the DE.

[blueman]

Butler does too little, evidenced by stats and eyes.

And exactly how many big plays did Luiget give up last year, and what happened on those plays?

[Steve]

If your DE is costing runs of 50,60,70 yards as you suggest, the problem is most definately bigger than that position. Where is the LB pursuit....the Cbs, and safeties??? There is no defensive play/scheme that the entire outside run stop is soley the responsibility of the DE.

You don't believe in gap control defense? Because every major pro and college football teams does. Every guy has his own responsibility. You don't worry about the next guy, everyone focuses on their responsibility and then if every guy does theirs, the D stop., Even if a player fails to a lesser degree, the D can still stop a play for a lesser gain. But make a mistake, jump a block and allow the OL to seal you off easily by jumping a block, the whole integrity of the D fails. That is the issue.

And the issue is that by allowing himself to be blocked so easily, Liuget and Reyes will allow the OL to get downfield and either help or block the LB, which then allows an OL or Te/RB/WR who might normally be needed blocking inside to then have an open shot at a DB.

It only takes one player screwing up badly enough to allow a team to break a long run. And in the NFL, it only takes that one play. There is very little margin for error.

Liuget and Reyes have the potential to be great players. They have ability the rest of our DL don't have. But when are they going to turn it on. I am not even talking about cutting them, just let Liuget play out his contract, which wasn't going to expire until next offseason. If he finally puts it together, then fine, pay him what we did. But if he doesn't, then let him walk. Now, depending on the structure of his deal, we can't even do that.

[Panamamike]

[QUOTE=Steve;160504]You don't believe in gap control defense? Because every major pro and college football teams does. Every guy has his own responsibility. You don't worry about the next guy, everyone focuses on their responsibility and then if every guy does theirs, the D stop., Even if a player fails to a lesser degree, the D can still stop a play for a lesser gain. But make a mistake, jump a block and allow the OL to seal you off easily by jumping a block, the whole integrity of the D fails. That is the issue.

And the issue is that by allowing himself to be blocked so easily, Liuget and Reyes will allow the OL to get downfield and either help or block the LB, which then allows an OL or Te/RB/WR who might normally be needed blocking inside to then have an open shot at a DB.

It only takes one player screwing up badly enough to allow a team to break a long run. And in the NFL, it only takes that one play. There is very little margin for error.

Liuget and Reyes have the potential to be great players. They have ability the rest of our DL don't have. But when are they going to turn it on. I am not even talking about cutting them, just let Liuget play out his contract, which wasn't going to expire until next offseason. If he finally puts it together, then fine, pay him what we did. But if he doesn't, then let him walk. Now, depending on the structure of his deal, we can't even do that.[/QUOTE

It is not so easy as saying.....then sign him after next offseason....see Detroit for reference. If he plays out his contract and has an excellent year, there is no guarantee he doesn't walk. Teams like to retain guys after rookie deals that are not busts, nor injury prone, and have shown plus ability. You lump Liuget and Reyes together all the time. I see Reyes as being far and away more guilty of the type of play for which you apply to Liuget. Probably why he wasn't extended. can Liuget be more consistent. Yes, he can, and that is part of growth. It also may be beneficial to lower his snap count 15-20%. He plays a rediculous amount of snaps. That and decent talent level surrounding him, instead of the taxi squad for most of the past two seasons, should go a long way to reducing the issues you reference. We shall see.

Again, I am fine with locking him up and getting another DE high in next season's draft. That manages the salary allocation at the position, replaces Reyes or limits him to situational PR.

[blueman]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Wait, that's my plan, like, the last two years..

[Panamamike]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Wait, that's my plan, like, the last two years..

Yeah...you and me both, especially last year., but I think Varrett has huge ability.,and I like Attaochus's skill set a lot .I was not a big fan of the DE crop this year. Only so many things can be addressed at the top of the draft, but I see that shaping up to be our top priority with WR early next year.

[Steve]

It is not so easy as saying.....then sign him after next offseason....see Detroit for reference. If he plays out his contract and has an excellent year, there is no guarantee he doesn't walk. Teams like to retain guys after rookie deals that are not busts, nor injury prone, and have shown plus ability. You lump Liuget and Reyes together all the time. I see Reyes as being far and away more guilty of the type of play for which you apply to Liuget. Probably why he wasn't extended. can Liuget be more consistent. Yes, he can, and that is part of growth. It also may be beneficial to lower his snap count 15-20%. He plays a rediculous amount of snaps. That and decent talent level surrounding him, instead of the taxi squad for most of the past two seasons, should go a long way to reducing the issues you reference. We shall see.

Again, I am fine with locking him up and getting another DE high in next season's draft. That manages the salary allocation at the position, replaces Reyes or limits him to situational PR.

We may not need to resign him. Remember, there are a lot of players that never take that final step and the problem I have with Liuget is he hasn't taken that final step. Right now, he is just not worth the money. IMHO, I think the backups (Mathews, Unrein, Carrethers, Lissemore and Philon) can do the job as well. They will probably not make as many splash plays, but they won't give up the missed plays either.

If Liuget is starting to show that he is getting it, we can start to negotiate at any time. If 12 weeks into the season he is finally a dominant player, why wait till the offseason. Even if we do wait till the end of the season, it still give us more time then other teams. It just means we will probably have to pay more, and if he is finally stepping his game up and being more consistent, then fine. It is a risk that may cost us some salary cap space.

Isn't it a bigger risk to sign a guy like Liuget to a top deal when he has never been able to play at a top level? It worked for Weddle, but it didn't for Butler. Again, without knowing the details, it could hurt us. Butler's deal has an out clause after 3 years, and maybe Liuget's does too. But right now, without knowing the structure, it is $30 mill bonus on a $51.5 mill deal, which means if we have to cut him, it costs us $6 mill per season he has left on the deal.

FWIW, even at full contract, I wouldn't mind putting both Liuget and Reyes on just the pass rush line. We play like 70% of the downs in the nickle, so who cares if they play on the base front. The best players should play where they can have the biggest impact, which is in the nickle. Play the 3rd string guys on 1st down in the base 34. No player is going to make an impact in the DE spot, so why even both. If another team is going to pass on those early downs, it is short drops, screens and get rid of the ball quick. You are just wasting snaps our impact players cannot make an impact. Best players on the pass rush line, second best to the base D.

[Faded blues]

We may not need to resign him. Remember, there are a lot of players that never take that final step and the problem I have with Liuget is he hasn't taken that final step. Right now, he is just not worth the money. IMHO, I think the backups (Mathews, Unrein, Carrethers, Lissemore and Philon) can do the job as well. They will probably not make as many splash plays, but they won't give up the missed plays either.

If Liuget is starting to show that he is getting it, we can start to negotiate at any time. If 12 weeks into the season he is finally a dominant player, why wait till the offseason. Even if we do wait till the end of the season, it still give us more time then other teams. It just means we will probably have to pay more, and if he is finally stepping his game up and being more consistent, then fine. It is a risk that may cost us some salary cap space.

Isn't it a bigger risk to sign a guy like Liuget to a top deal when he has never been able to play at a top level? It worked for Weddle, but it didn't for Butler. Again, without knowing the details, it could hurt us. Butler's deal has an out clause after 3 years, and maybe Liuget's does too. But right now, without knowing the structure, it is $30 mill bonus on a $51.5 mill deal, which means if we have to cut him, it costs us $6 mill per season he has left on the deal.

FWIW, even at full contract, I wouldn't mind putting both Liuget and Reyes on just the pass rush line. We play like 70% of the downs in the nickle, so who cares if they play on the base front. The best players should play where they can have the biggest impact, which is in the nickle. Play the 3rd string guys on 1st down in the base 34. No player is going to make an impact in the DE spot, so why even both. If another team is going to pass on those early downs, it is short drops, screens and get rid of the ball quick. You are just wasting snaps our impact players cannot make an impact. Best players on the pass rush line, second best to the base D.

Steve

You claim that luegit failed at gap control? Can you prove this?

[Steve]

Can I prove it? You want me to edit and post you tube videos or something?

[Millionaire Wussy]

I'd be all over Michael if he really is available for a late round pick. Put him in Brown's spot.

from rotoworld...

ESPN Seahawks reporter Terry Blount believes Christine Michael is on the roster bubble.
Blount suggests Michael could lose his roster spot to impressive UDFA Thomas Rawls, a physical runner who caught the coaching staff's attention at spring practices. The 62nd overall pick in the 2013 draft, Michael has special physical attributes and a 4.88 career YPC average, but has earned just 52 carries through two seasons and has never seemed to earn the coaches' trust. Still only 24 years old, Michael would certainly generate interest on waivers. The Seahawks might be able to get a late-round pick for him if he's made available for trade.