For just once in my miserable life as a Chargers fan

[homeless simpson]

Some guys are still butthurt over losing those two.

This will be Telesco's team next year. It typically takes 3 years to rebuild in the current NFL. Norv and AJ are absolutely relevant because the Chargers are still dealing with the consequences of their decisions their last 2 years. See also: the current roster.

let's make this easier:

1) Is the lack of the pass rush in this losing streak because we no longer have shaun phillips (Yuba style of going back to 2 years ago) or because norv/aj left the team bare (also, another duo who was here 2 years ago); OR Ingram, Attaochu were injured, Tourek hasn't developed as everybody was hoping or Cordaro Law isnt being used enough etc, Freeney is no longer getting there and is being used too much and JJ just isnt a pass rusher....re: basically all stuff that's not related to the previous regime as far as what is wrong with it at the moment.

2) the secondary, which is arguably one of the best in chargers history that Telesco has assembled.....are they sucking during this losing streak because well norv and aj. OR they just haven't been able to stay healthy. which has nothing to do with the regime from 2 years ago.

3) Is the OL that Telesco assembled last season (which was pretty good) and even last season when it had it's fair share of injuries, sucking this season because, let's conveniently blame norv and aj; OR maybe just like in 2012 neither AJ nor Telesco so far this season had managed to bring in enough depth because neither one of them was expecting the guys who played well last season to regress or have as many injuries that we are down to the third string option in some cases. or hey, let's just blame norv and AJ for rhinehart/fluker/porkchops not playing well and also blame them for not developing watt fast enough.

4) the lack of the running game due to injuries to Mathews, Woodhead, Donald, if these guys along with Oliver are all healthy you get the Telesco appreciation thread for marvelous depth. all of them get injured and no running game, well damn that norv and aj for leaving the team bare.

5) Butler playing like shit and Manti always injured with all the backups that Telesco brought in for depth......well norv and aj's fault too.

6) the offense not being on track, the defense being exposed during this losing streak.....damn, all signs point to norv and aj being at fault.

without all these damn injuries (biggest reason) and some players regressing (from mostly guys that have been coached up or brought in by this regime) we probably would not be in this losing streak and there would be plenty of Mike McCoy is the man! Or Slow Hand Clap Appreciation Threads for Telesco for all the guys he's brought in. but nah, let's just blame the lack of pass rush on marcellus wiley, the lousy secondary on stewart, if the ST fuck up blame it on Crosby, brian schottenheimer for not developing brees, and blame all these injuries on Chao being a lousy doctor.

[Formula 21]

Does Tourek even get snaps?

[Den60]

Who are we getting back that will improve our pass/run blocking?

Who are we getting back that's going to make us more stout at the point of attack on defense? Everyone on the front 7 is on ice skates except for Liuget.

We need a new center and both guards (unless we move Fluker inside, then we will need a RT). Perhaps Watt can develop though he hasn't established himself as starter material yet - and this is with an interior o-line which is not very good and hasn't been for the year. If you want to stay with offense we will need a new #1 running back since it is doubtful Mathews is retained. Woodhead will be 30 and coming off a rather severe injury so I don't think you can count on him long term either. In fact, you may not be able to count on him coming back from this injury and being as effective as he was last season. Even prior to his injury he didn't seem as productive (at least to me) as he was last year. At TE we are getting good production from Gates but he isn't young. I do think he is keeping Green off the field with his resurgence. Phillips will be gone so you do have to bring in at least one new body in there. At WR our best have been Floyd and Royal. Both of them have some issues maintaining health and Floyd will be 34 next year. You probably think that in the draft WR is going to be a need as well. Allen hasn't really progressed since last year but he is probably in our plans for the next 4-5 years.

On defense we need a real NT and depth along the d-line. Reyes has not done much the last two seasons after a good rookie year (though he was used mainly in passing situations during that time). Only Luiget seems like someone who can be counted on from this point forward. Both Johnson and Freeney are old and we are thin at ILB. We are also thin at OLB even if Ingram and Atta-choo can get healthy (you need more than two for a 3-4 defense). Flowers is on a one year contract and Verrett and Williams seem to have issues staying on the field.

I see a lot of holes that need to be filled and the clock is ticking for Rivers. Our two drafts since TT came in have only given us two starters who have been consistently on the field and producing. That is a concern. We are aging at a rate faster than that.

[Den60]

This will be Telesco's team next year. It typically takes 3 years to rebuild in the current NFL. Norv and AJ are absolutely relevant because the Chargers are still dealing with the consequences of their decisions their last 2 years. See also: the current roster.

We weren't actually at the bottom point when it comes to rebuilding when TT took the team over. If you take a look, a lot of our most productive players this year were in place prior to TT taking over. TT made the decision, right or wrong, when it came to our O & D lines. He got rid of people and brought in some on both lines, so he owns them. When it comes to the lines he has spent only two picks in the top three rounds in his first 2 drafts on either - one of those picks being a consistent starter though struggling a bit at his current position.

[TTK]

We weren't actually at the bottom point when it comes to rebuilding when TT took the team over. If you take a look, a lot of our most productive players this year were in place prior to TT taking over. TT made the decision, right or wrong, when it came to our O & D lines. He got rid of people and brought in some on both lines, so he owns them. When it comes to the lines he has spent only two picks in the top three rounds in his first 2 drafts on either - one of those picks being a consistent starter though struggling a bit at his current position.

TT inherited two high draft picks who have shown flashes on the d-line so I can't fault him for not drafting high there and he did get a good deal for Lissemore. And Carruthers may still become a good player. DL take a while to develop.

I can't fault him for "only" drafting Watt for the OL this year either, especially with so many places on defense needing to be addressed. Based on last year, o-line was supposed to be one of the stronger groups. They definitely need to draft a guard though. Rinehart and Porkchops have to be the worst tandem in the league. Learn quick, Chris Watt!

[Den60]

TT inherited two high draft picks who have shown flashes on the d-line so I can't fault him for not drafting high there and he did get a good deal for Lissemore. And Carruthers may still become a good player. DL take a while to develop.

I can't fault him for "only" drafting Watt for the OL this year either, especially with so many places on defense needing to be addressed. Based on last year, o-line was supposed to be one of the stronger groups. They definitely need to draft a guard though. Rinehart and Porkchops have to be the worst tandem in the league. Learn quick, Chris Watt!

Can we at least fault him for taking Te'o (trading up to do so) or is he and his decisions still untouchable on here? You have to admit when it comes TT's picks, those that are actually producing, our return hasn't been all that good, and this is a team that people on here say is "rebuilding." Hell, Gachkar is one of our starting ILBs right now and he was, what, a seventh round pick?

To be honest, I didn't hate the trade up for Atta-choo-choo though I didn't expect him to produce his first year (he is a one-trick-pony) as many fans were hoping for. But I do have reservations with an old team trading 4th round picks and then being very active signing other teams' castoffs come the end of training camps. I do believe you build through the draft and we have had some very good players drafted in the 4th round.

So far I think TT's two drafts have been rather "meh." We cannot afford to have a lot of "meh" drafts because this team is still among the oldest in the league.

[homeless simpson]

i'm gonna pull an MGB and wonder what would the bolts be like now with Keim at GM and Arians at HC.........

[richpjr]

Ah, the team loses a few games and Mr Sunshine appears again.

[Boltjolt]

Can we at least fault him for taking Te'o (trading up to do so) or is he and his decisions still untouchable on here? You have to admit when it comes TT's picks, those that are actually producing, our return hasn't been all that good, and this is a team that people on here say is "rebuilding." Hell, Gachkar is one of our starting ILBs right now and he was, what, a seventh round pick?

To be honest, I didn't hate the trade up for Atta-choo-choo though I didn't expect him to produce his first year (he is a one-trick-pony) as many fans were hoping for. But I do have reservations with an old team trading 4th round picks and then being very active signing other teams' castoffs come the end of training camps. I do believe you build through the draft and we have had some very good players drafted in the 4th round.

So far I think TT's two drafts have been rather "meh." We cannot afford to have a lot of "meh" drafts because this team is still among the oldest in the league.

So your giving Telescos two drafts a final grade of "meh" already? Fluker has been poductive though he has had his moments geting beat. He has still been a lot better RT than Clary. Te'o when on the field has been productive. He was playing well late last year after missing all of his rookie preseason and the first four games and was playing well this season. Keenan Allen has been outstanding. He isnt regressing or not playing as well, he just isnt the only WR we have that is good. Floyd is taking targets from him and Royal with Allen and Floyd playing well is having some things open up for him.

Verrett is going to be a very good CB in this league. Just because he is injured doesnt mean he is a meh draft pick. I also think Attaochu is going to really help our pass rush but he had the hammy issues. He and Verrett are rookies half way thru their first season. We have no idea how good or not Watt is going to be being in his rooie season as well. How can you say Telesco has had "meh" drafts at this point? Sorry but i still think his first draft was good. Fluker will produce no matter where he ends up and if moved to OG, he may just be a stud there. Te'o has to get over his foot issues and if he can , he too will be a good player for us. Sorry, i just dont agree with your assessent there.

I also want to point out that Woodhead got injured on the first series of the 2nd game of teh season. I dont know how you can say he hasnt been as productive as last season when he only played 1 game plus one series in another.
I agree there are holes they need to fill but getting some key vets will help as well and they will have more cap space next off season. I believe in building thru the draft as well but getting a vet here and there wont hurt if you get the right guys. It sure isnt hurting Denver.

[6025]

Ah, the team loses a few games and Mr Sunshine appears again.

No shit!

[blahblahblah]

let's make this easier:

1) Is the lack of the pass rush in this losing streak because we no longer have shaun phillips (Yuba style of going back to 2 years ago) or because norv/aj left the team bare (also, another duo who was here 2 years ago); OR Ingram, Attaochu were injured, Tourek hasn't developed as everybody was hoping or Cordaro Law isnt being used enough etc, Freeney is no longer getting there and is being used too much and JJ just isnt a pass rusher....re: basically all stuff that's not related to the previous regime as far as what is wrong with it at the moment.

2) the secondary, which is arguably one of the best in chargers history that Telesco has assembled.....are they sucking during this losing streak because well norv and aj. OR they just haven't been able to stay healthy. which has nothing to do with the regime from 2 years ago.

3) Is the OL that Telesco assembled last season (which was pretty good) and even last season when it had it's fair share of injuries, sucking this season because, let's conveniently blame norv and aj; OR maybe just like in 2012 neither AJ nor Telesco so far this season had managed to bring in enough depth because neither one of them was expecting the guys who played well last season to regress or have as many injuries that we are down to the third string option in some cases. or hey, let's just blame norv and AJ for rhinehart/fluker/porkchops not playing well and also blame them for not developing watt fast enough.

4) the lack of the running game due to injuries to Mathews, Woodhead, Donald, if these guys along with Oliver are all healthy you get the Telesco appreciation thread for marvelous depth. all of them get injured and no running game, well damn that norv and aj for leaving the team bare.

5) Butler playing like shit and Manti always injured with all the backups that Telesco brought in for depth......well norv and aj's fault too.

6) the offense not being on track, the defense being exposed during this losing streak.....damn, all signs point to norv and aj being at fault.

without all these damn injuries (biggest reason) and some players regressing (from mostly guys that have been coached up or brought in by this regime) we probably would not be in this losing streak and there would be plenty of Mike McCoy is the man! Or Slow Hand Clap Appreciation Threads for Telesco for all the guys he's brought in. but nah, let's just blame the lack of pass rush on marcellus wiley, the lousy secondary on stewart, if the ST fuck up blame it on Crosby, brian schottenheimer for not developing brees, and blame all these injuries on Chao being a lousy doctor.

Let's make this even easier: There are finite resources. A lack of depth right now is an issue of previous poor roster management and finite resources. Players like Palepoi, Porkchops, and Rinehart don't make good rosters. Or is all the dead cap space from Gaithers irrelevant? Would we have OL depth if we weren't still paying for him?

[Panama]

People are tripping, Well be fine. Just look at how last season ended up. MM has a good plan for our second half of the season.

MM was just taking what he could get this game & nothing happened, So they pretty much threw the towel in, And kept it vanilla, To come out unscathed, Even thou Ornhberger got a Marilyn Manson Rib injury today. Just imagine how a good rested Chargers team is going to be, With some key players back. I think having these 2nd & 3rd string player get so much playing time lately, It's going to make them a lot better, Once we get our starters back. This might be a blessing in disguise

The Raiders should be very, very afraid.