Week 5 Other Games Discussion

[Guest]

And it was a bad call lol
Just wasn't their day.

It was recognized as a bad call at the time in the game.

[Guest]

In the process of bringing his team back from 17 down, Rivers threw a pick six, caused a safety, threw a 2nd INT and had no TD passes.

Like I have been saying, Rivers is OK playing from ahead. But as soon he's in a situation where he's playing from behind and has to mount a comeback, like today, he's going to melt down, like he did today. He was not always this bad playing from behind, but at this point in his career he is not capable of leading comebacks like we saw him do v. Pitt and KC two years ago. I think we saw the decline last season, and that is why he's no longer a Chargers. I think this is Rivers' final season.

The pick-6 was what put the team down by 17, so it was not part of the comeback. SMH....

Rivers did not cause a safety. That is asinine. Their reserve LT allowed pressure that caused a high arcing pass to the sideline that resulted in a terrible call of a safety after a boneheaded fair catch at the 3 yard line by the punt returner. It was obvious that the pass was intended for the outbreaking TE, but the throw could not get there because of the angle of release and Rivers not being able to step into the throw, both due to the pass rush. The pass was at least 10 yards short of where it looked like the TE's intended route would have taken him, but the TE had not even made his cut when the ball was released.

When Rivers passed early and often, they scored 10 points in their first two drives. Reich then called more early down running plays despite being the worst team in the league in YPC and they went three and out, changing the momentum in the game. Meanwhile, their defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FGs in Cleveland's first half drives. And Reich continued to waste time in the second half by calling 8 straight running plays on one drive.

Rivers made one horrible pass for a pick-6 and one forced INT due to the constant pressure. That said, today was more of an OL, Reich and defense issue than it was a Rivers issue.

Rivers did rally the team to within 6. They had enough time and timeouts, but the defense could not stop Cleveland's running game when they knew it was coming and that finally cost them the game because they were allowed to get into FG position to put the game out of reach with only about 20 seconds remaining. Had the defense stopped the Browns, Rivers had generated some offensive momentum in the previous drive and was in good position to lead the game winning drive. But it is difficult to lead the game winning drive when your defense fails against the opposing team's 4 minute offense.

[Velo]

The pick-6 was what put the team down by 17, so it was not part of the comeback. SMH....

Rivers did not cause a safety. That is asinine. Their reserve LT allowed pressure that caused a high arcing pass to the sideline that resulted in a terrible call of a safety after a boneheaded fair catch at the 3 yard line by the punt returner. It was obvious that the pass was intended for the outbreaking TE, but the throw could not get there because of the angle of release and Rivers not being able to step into the throw, both due to the pass rush. The pass was at least 10 yards short of where it looked like the TE's intended route would have taken him, but the TE had not even made his cut when the ball was released.

When Rivers passed early and often, they scored 10 points in their first two drives. Reich then called more early down running plays despite being the worst team in the league in YPC and they went three and out, changing the momentum in the game. Meanwhile, their defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FGs in Cleveland's first half drives. And Reich continued to waste time in the second half by calling 8 straight running plays on one drive.

Rivers made one horrible pass for a pick-6 and one forced INT due to the constant pressure. That said, today was more of an OL, Reich and defense issue than it was a Rivers issue.

Rivers did rally the team to within 6. They had enough time and timeouts, but the defense could not stop Cleveland's running game when they knew it was coming and that finally cost them the game because they were allowed to get into FG position to put the game out of reach with only about 20 seconds remaining. Had the defense stopped the Browns, Rivers had generated some offensive momentum in the previous drive and was in good position to lead the game winning drive. But it is difficult to lead the game winning drive when your defense fails against the opposing team's 4 minute offense.

The safety was absolutely on Rivers. He panicked and threw the ball to a place where there was no WR.

[Guest]

Lost credibility. Check...

I agree that you have lost your credibility. Was that your goal?

[Topcat]

The pick-6 was what put the team down by 17, so it was not part of the comeback. SMH....

Rivers did not cause a safety. That is asinine. Their reserve LT allowed pressure that caused a high arcing pass to the sideline that resulted in a terrible call of a safety after a boneheaded fair catch at the 3 yard line by the punt returner. It was obvious that the pass was intended for the outbreaking TE, but the throw could not get there because of the angle of release and Rivers not being able to step into the throw, both due to the pass rush. The pass was at least 10 yards short of where it looked like the TE's intended route would have taken him, but the TE had not even made his cut when the ball was released.

When Rivers passed early and often, they scored 10 points in their first two drives. Reich then called more early down running plays despite being the worst team in the league in YPC and they went three and out, changing the momentum in the game. Meanwhile, their defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FGs in Cleveland's first half drives. And Reich continued to waste time in the second half by calling 8 straight running plays on one drive.

Rivers made one horrible pass for a pick-6 and one forced INT due to the constant pressure. That said, today was more of an OL, Reich and defense issue than it was a Rivers issue.

Rivers did rally the team to within 6. They had enough time and timeouts, but the defense could not stop Cleveland's running game when they knew it was coming and that finally cost them the game because they were allowed to get into FG position to put the game out of reach with only about 20 seconds remaining. Had the defense stopped the Browns, Rivers had generated some offensive momentum in the previous drive and was in good position to lead the game winning drive. But it is difficult to lead the game winning drive when your defense fails against the opposing team's 4 minute offense.

What I saw was...

...Riverboat Rivers the Gamblin' Gunslinger forced the rock into tight coverage for a pick-6...
...Rivers panicked and slung the rock into coverage for another pick...
...Rivers tried to play hero ball and heaved the rock where there was no eligible receiver for a safety...
...Vintage Rivers...I called this weeks ago...Rivers plays one or two solid games, then panics and loses a winnable game...

[Guest]

You’re calling Pittman, the rookie from SC, one of his best weapons? Rivers had a poor game.

Pittman and Campbell were their best two WRs before they were injured. Going into this season, I would have expected it to be Hilton, but he has really struggled with key drops and has not been getting good separation. He looks slower. So yeah, when they were injured, Pittman and Campbell looked like the two best WRs. Pascal is their #4 WR.

I like Jonathan Taylor, but his field vision has been an issue at times and was again today. Mack was a more effective runner and is a big loss to their very struggling running game.

I am not here to say that Rivers played a good game. He did not.

But the point to which I was responding was the assertion that he was/is somehow incapable of leading his team from behind. I think that despite his less than great game, he was one stop by the defense away from doing exactly that today. To me, the Colts had taken the momentum back--amazing how that happened just as soon as they went pass heavy again just like when they had the lead early in the game.

[21&500]

Rivers did not throw an INT at the end of the game, so his bad pick-6 pass, which I did acknowledge as a bad pass in other posts in this thread, was not a part of Rivers leading a late comeback, which was the point I was addressing in discussing what got in the way of that comeback.

okay, normally I would have left this alone
but now you're just flat out lying sir (regarding the bold)
and I know this because my argument was modest
at no point do you ever acknowledge Rivers' interception as a bad pass
If i'm wrong, i'll gladly apologize
but the following are YOUR posts in this thread and another thread (in case you were confused)
please tell me if either i'm not seeing it, or you're just plain wrong and now backpedaling
please tell me if i'm misquotting a single word...

“Reich is absolutely killing the offense by going run heavy, especially on early downs. When Reich allowed Rivers to take shots down the field and pass the ball more often, Rivers led the team to 10 points on the first two drives of the game. Then Reich got in the way of the offense's success as he has done most of the season by opening the next drive, a three and out, with run, run. That, more than anything else, has been killing the Colts on offense this season on drive after drive.

The 8 straight running plays was sheer stupidity on Reich's part. Trailing by 10 in the second half and having a defense that had been struggling to stop the Browns, Reich decided that it would be a good idea to burn 5:15 off of the clock to move the ball just 29 yards and kick a FG. Of course, they were just about one first down from being in FG position when they started the drive.

The Trent Dilfer comparison is ridiculous. Rivers has been able to move the team very well when Reich has not screwed up the offense by going too run heavy, especially on early downs.

Also, the Colts need to get their LT back as the Browns had hurries on 15 of Rivers' first 18 drop backs.

It has been sad to see Reich blowing it for Rivers this season, but it reminds me of why we did not keep Reich as our OC. The guy cannot seem to fugure out that if you have the worst YPC in the entire league, then maybe, just maybe, going run heavy on drives is not the way to go. And so it was today--yet another sub-4.0 YPC day (3.8), though only 18 attempts because the Browns were allowed by the defense to possess the ball for 34:45.

Maybe Reich will figure out that first down is the best down on which to pass the ball and that when your team cannot run the ball effectively, it should use the pass to set up the run, mixing in the run gently, essentially reversing the emphasis that has taken place thus far this season.”

“They were missing their LT today and Garrett is a leading DPOY candidate, so that was a terrible time for him to be missing. And it really showed.

Also, Rivers is missing several key offensive weapons. Throw in bad play calling and the offense is not dynamic enough right now to carry the team for a deep playoff run.

Finally, their defense is somewhat overrated. They are opportunistic in terms of creating turnovers, but they also have a tendency to play soft zone coverage at times, which hurt them against Jacksonville and again today.”
“Rivers was pressured 15 of the first 18 times he dropped back to pass the ball. With Castonzo injured and out, the Colts' OL was not intact for the first time in 22 games. Le'Raven Clark, the substitute LT, was getting torched by Myles Garrett on play after play.

The defense was not good today except for a short stretch in the second half where they recorded one sack and two INTs. They gave up 20 first half points and allowed the Browns to score on every possession they had during that time.

After the team had battled back and had the game within 6 points, all the defense needed was to get off the field and instead, they allowed the Browns to make multiple first downs, take most of the time off of the clock and get into game icing FG position.

And yes, due to inuries, his playmakers are very subpar--no Mack, no Pittman, no Campbell, which represent his 3 best weapons as Hilton looks like he has lost a step or two.

Rivers is not being put in a good position with the play calling that has taken place so far this season. It reminds me of why we did not choose to bring Reich back as Whiz was always better than Reich when it came to calling plays.”
“The defense choked the game away as Rivers was in the process of bringing the Colts back from 17 down, overcoming his own pick 6, some awful officiating, his own inept play caller (Reich/Siriani), and terrible pass protection due to the injury to Castonzo (almost pressured on every attempt). All they needed was a stop and instead, they not only gave up two first downs by the run in known running situations, but also gave up so many yards as to allow a FG. That was an absolute choke in the clutch by the defense.”

[Boltjolt]

What I saw was...

...Riverboat Rivers the Gamblin' Gunslinger forced the rock into tight coverage for a pick-6...
...Rivers panicked and slung the rock into coverage for another pick...
...Rivers tried to play hero ball and heaved the rock where there was no eligible receiver for a safety...
...Vintage Rivers...I called this weeks ago...Rivers plays one or two solid games, then panics and loses a winnable game...

The Browns gashed the Colts defense in the first half. The Colts had 3 offensive possessions in the first half, while the Browns held a 20 min to 10 mon TOP advantage.

It was winnable I guess but unlikely. I mean they are all winnable,....til they aren't.

And yes I don't get why punt returners these days call for fair catches inside the 10 yard line. They never did that years ago.

[Guest]

The safety was absolutely on Rivers. He panicked and threw the ball to a place where there was no WR.

1. Bad fair catch.
2. Bad pass protection leads to defender in Rivers' face forcing an early pass or be sacked for a safety anyway.
3. Because of the pass rush, Rivers' cannot step into a long sideline pass and must make the arc of the pass higher than intended.
4. Rivers throws the ball in the direction of where his TE is running an outbreaking route.
5. Because the throw had to be made early, the TE had not even reached his break.
6. By the time the ball landed, it was short and the TE was just beginning to head out toward the sideline from near the middle of the field and deeper than where the pass landed.
7. The TE sees that the pass is going to be incomplete and stops running initially and is not very close when it lands.
8. He later jogs to the spot where the ball landed.
8. Rivers immediately identifies the intended receiver and the pattern he was running.
9. The refs ignore Rivers' clear explanation and make a bad intentional grounding call resulting in a safety.

That is exactly what happened. The throw was an anticipatory throw that would have been deeper and released later but for the pass rush. It was not a throw to nobody. I have seen him throw long outbreaking routes to Gates like that over the years many times, but the time was not there for the play to develop or for Rivers to get everything into the throw.

[Guest]

The Browns gashed the Colts defense in the first half. The Colts had 3 offensive possessions in the first half, while the Browns held a 20 min to 10 mon TOP advantage.

It was winnable I guess but unlikely. I mean they are all winnable,....til they aren't.

And yes I don't get why punt returners these days call for fair catches inside the 10 yard line. They never did that years ago.

I do not get that about punt returners either. It seems like a punt returner could stand on the yard line that marks the point of not returning the ball. If the ball is over the returner's head, then signal fair catch and let it go (to confuse those that might down the ball) or just let it go.

The Browns had a 10 point lead before Rivers did anything that the dislikers claim was wrong and the game ended as a 9 point Browns win. So the Colts gained one point against the lead in the second half.

[21&500]

1. Bad fair catch.
2. Bad pass protection leads to defender in Rivers' face forcing an early pass or be sacked for a safety anyway.
3. Because of the pass rush, Rivers' cannot step into a long sideline pass and must make the arc of the pass higher than intended.
4. Rivers throws the ball in the direction of where his TE is running an outbreaking route.
5. Because the throw had to be made early, the TE had not even reached his break.
6. By the time the ball landed, it was short and the TE was just beginning to head out toward the sideline from near the middle of the field and deeper than where the pass landed.
7. The TE sees that the pass is going to be incomplete and stops running initially and is not very close when it lands.
8. He later jogs to the spot where the ball landed.
8. Rivers immediately identifies the intended receiver and the pattern he was running.
9. The refs ignore Rivers' clear explanation and make a bad intentional grounding call resulting in a safety.

That is exactly what happened. The throw was an anticipatory throw that would have been deeper and released later but for the pass rush. It was not a throw to nobody. I have seen him throw long outbreaking routes to Gates like that over the years many times, but the time was not there for the play to develop or for Rivers to get everything into the throw.

anyone else find this sentence weirdly hilarious?
It would have been a great throw, like a perfect throw, but the pass rush got there.
I won't speak on the play it's because I didn't see it, but an "anticipatory throw" that is thrown early and shallow is a fancy description for
a throw to nobody.

i'm sure every qb who has ever thrown a pass to "no one" will claim eventually someone would have eventually been there, by design.

[21&500]

same play

the passrusher would have gotten a true sack for a safety if not for the Olline getting in the way
his fellow Dlinemen not blocking said offensive line
and the quarterback throwing before the passrusher getting there.

but other than that, it was a great sack in the making.