Flawed Passrusher or top 2 RB?

[Mister Hoarse]

Kiper talks Chargers draft
By Tom Krasovic 03:15p.m. Mar 27, 2015


The Chargers need to find a running back who puts scare into the defense.

Someone both fast and powerful, someone like Ryan Mathews only more durable.

An edge rusher should be on their short list as well, the Chargers had only 26 sacks last year and cut ties this month with their best edge rusher of 2014, Dwight Freeney.

General Manager Tom Telesco may look to the draft for answers. Thursday, I asked ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. about the talent.

It's a very good draft class at both running back and edge rusher, he said.

Kiper wouldn't use the 17th pick on a running back.

"I just think it's a little early," he said. "I would wait it out and go running back (later). There's a lot of guys, like a Duke Johnson from Miami of Florida, that are going to go at bargain points in this draft. Buck Allen from USC is another one."

My take: Todd Gurley and Melvin Gordon merit consideration at 17. The Chargers should do extra homework on each one. Georgia's Gurley, who has drawn comparisons to Steven Jackson and Marshawn Lynch, had ACL surgery in November. He would be behind other rookies going into training camp but still could be a difference maker in 2015. Gordon of Wisconsin is a very good prospect, though less explosive and powerful than Gurley. Gordon is less speedy than Mathews was coming out of Fresno State.

Kiper said his favorite edge rushers will be taken before 17.

"Bud Dupree from Kentucky would be the guy in play at that point," he said.

Dupree, 6-foot-4, 269 pounds with an astonishing 42-inch vertical leap, lined up at several spots for Kentucky.

"Great workouts, great skill sets, a little inconsistent productivity," Kiper said. "You've got to get him a little more consistent, coach him up a little bit."

My take: Dupree may fit better in a "4-3" defense, at end, than as an end or outside llinebacker in San Diego's "3-4" scheme. He was productive in college but less productive than Telesco's four premium draft investments -- first round selections D.J. Fluker and Jason Verrett, and second-rounders Manti Te'o and Jerry Attaochu, who each also cost San Diego a fourth-round pick.

To pick him 17th, the Chargers would have to believe Dupree can be coached up.

Typical of a Kiper pick for us. Complete disregard of a fit to the system.

[Mister Hoarse]

yep. BPA in 1st round, then reshuffle draft board and do it again in rounds 2-4. Gotta come away with an Impact starter on both OL & DL near the top somehow. RB, OLB, SS are lower priorities to me than improving/solidifying the trenches.

This ^
BPA in the first 3-4 rounds while there are gems to collect.

[rikardo]

RB, OLB, DT, WR, SS, OL we could go a few different ways.

This...

[Steve]

Typical of a Kiper pick for us. Complete disregard of a fit to the system.

I disagree with Kiper, I think he is as good a fit as a 34 OLB as he is 43 DE. Dupree is really athletic for a guy his size. He has speed, power and is OK when he drops into pass coverage. In any case, we use our OLB mostly like DE, so I don't think it is as big a deal for us. I like him a lot better then say Randy Gregory (even without the drug thing with Gregory).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XiCeViic5E - general highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZXUQagnpOU - vs Missouri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBwbIYkBiQ8 vs Mississippi

When I watch, it seems like he is coached to play pretty conservative, then gets turned lose more over the course of the game. He becomes a lot more aggressive as a pass rusher when he has a better idea of what teams are doing against him. When he is just trying to get upfeild hard, he beats OL off the line and really shows great speed off the edge.

Earlier in the games, he makes plays by taking on and shedding blockers, and reading and reacting, which is where I think Kiper gets the thing about him being a better DE comes from. For a college player, he shows excellent hand use and does a good job of keeping his feet moving and chasing plays down. He also has the build of a 43 DE, and he doesn't fly off the corner hard all the time, but that looks like how he is coached. But because he doesn't come off the edge hard, teams can't trap him upfield or beat him on a lot of zone reads. The guy could make a lot more plays if they turned him lose, but he doesn't give up many big plays either. If he gets to really work with better coaching and do a lot more film study, I think he can be a lot better pro player then college, and he is pretty good college player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhG6ja0PWaY vs vs Florida

[bonehead]

Thanks Steve good stuff...here's one I found while viewing your link, breaks down Duprees technique....

http://youtu.be/oXYLlrJ5OFY

[Steve]

I disagree with so much of what that guy said.

Dupree has a couple of games that I saw, where he uses his hands. The guy doing the review is right that he is not as polished as an NFL rusher. But that is a bullshit comment. No college player has ever had all those moves coming out. JJ Watt didn't. Von Miller didn't. No one has the complete package. They have to develop them. AS far as Dupree vs where all these other guys where when they were drafted, I think is as good, or further ahead of where other college pass rushers were coming out. He uses his hands better then most. He can dip and rip better, although he doesn't do it often (he doesn't need to against the players he faces). I don't think you just judge them vs NFL rushers, you judge them against guys who are at a similar level of development.

If there is a issue that I have with all the top edge rushers in this class is that all of them (Fowler, Ray, Beasley and Dupree), all of them would have more big play chances if they were allowed to go upfield more. They get most of their sacks on passing downs, because on run downs they are keeping contain and not getting too far upfield. Many college pass rushers (most years) spend a lot of time trying to make big plays at the expense of their team. Many of them pad their own stats, while giving up plays where on zone reads the RB is getitng the ball inside and then has no one to challenge them 10-15 yards downfield.

This class not only makes the big plays as pass rushers, but they make plays vs the run. They don't allow cheap stuff that hurts their team at the expense of own stats.

The other thing that stands out about this class, is with the exception of Gregory, all of them show some hand use and some ability to use power (or more than is the norm for a college DE). Again, they don't abandon their gap assignment to run around and make plays, but leave a hole to be exploited. A lot of college DE and OLB prospects do that, but this class is the exception. I like Beasley, Dupree, Ray and Fowler better then most college classes of edge rusher.

[Mister Hoarse]

At 17 overall I don't want a flawed anything.

[Formula 21]

At 17 overall I don't want a flawed anything.

At 17, you still have a high shot at a non-productive pick. Take your guy and take your chance.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Not if a devalued position of need is on the board at 17

[Mister Hoarse]

Devalued Positions Of Need FTW!

[Sec-E4]

Okay I'll play


If it's a Patrick Willis type of Draftee....Well then I'd pick that over a 2,000 yard back anyday. I think a Defensive Dominator would make a bigger difference and would bring our D into a diffenrent world. I'm fine with having 3 RB's doing the duty.

[UtahBolt]

Todd Gurley or Melvin Gordon. Rookie impact from OLB is a lot harder to do. This is coming from a big fan of both Gregory and Dupree. Our OLB are already lacking in experience, it be unwise to add another in the first and expect impact from the get go. The most impact we could get from a defensive player in this draft realistically would be either Malcolm Brown and Landon Collins. Brown could rotate at NT with Carreathers and give us good run defense. While in passing situations he'd switch with Reyes and be great pass rushing DE. Landon Collins on the other hand would make our already good secondary borderline Elite if not out right. He'd be the heir to Weddle as well as being a Rodney Harrison type thumper to intimidate WRs from going down the middle.

This. If we want/need our first round pick to produce and make an impact this year, than we should not go with an edge rusher in the first round. While edge rushers may have brief flashes during their rookie season, they usually take a while to adapt their moves and technique to the pro level. To me, by the time a rookie selected in this draft is at full go, Ingram and Attachou will be fulfilling that role for us. With those two guys still developing, I am not sure I see the value in an edge rusher at the 17 pick.