Chargers @ Chiefs Wk3 Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion

[Boltjolt]

The worry is that the team will think Palmer is a high caliber WR that can replace Williams next year. In this offense, Williams is every bit as valuable as Allen is. I think we are seeing that Williams is better than most thought he was because the prior scheme focused so heavily on Allen.

I have seen zero evidence that Palmer is anything other than a reserve WR. Any player can develop and I am not suggesting that Palmer is a Pipkins bad draft pick as I think he has at least some potential, but there is a gigantic difference between Williams and Palmer and all those folks that thought that Palmer could replace Williams need to be pumping the brakes pretty hard right about now.

I would much rather have Guyton's deep speed and jet sweep potential on the field than Palmer.

I've never said Palmer was a MW replacement as others have. Ive said if MW leaves we will draft another or sign another.

You certainly don't know what Palmer is capable of and to assume he can't play in his rookie season after 3 preseason games and 3 regular season games is dumb. MW did nothing as a rookie and neither did Vincent Jackson or Antonio Brown who was a 6th rounder.

You don't just say a guy shows no evidence he is any good before a quarter if their rookie season is over. If we did, then your boy Trevor Lawrence is a bust already
.

And sorry, I don't see Guyton as much. Just a big play deep WR on occasion..... If he catches the ball. And so far it don't seem we will do much of that. Guyton to me isn't very impressive and he is the clear #3 WR right now.
Hopefully Palmer turns out to be much better.

[Guest]

You missed the point of the receiver has to catch the ball. Getting open is just the first part. That pass still hit Guyton right between both hands and he dropped it. Allen or Williams would have caught the ball no doubt.

Actually, I think you missed the point. Sorenson hit Guyton right as the ball arrived. The ball could have been caught, but was far from a simple drop. We will never know what Williams or Allen would have done. Both have dropped far easier chances than that one this season.

[Guest]

I've never said Palmer was a MW replacement as others have. Ive said if MW leaves we will draft another or sign another.

You certainly don't know what Palmer is capable of and to assume he can't play in his rookie season after 3 preseason games and 3 regular season games is dumb. MW did nothing as a rookie and neither did Vincent Jackson or Antonio Brown who was a 6th rounder.

You don't just say a guy shows no evidence he is any good before a quarter if their rookie season is over. If we did, then your boy Trevor Lawrence is a bust already
.

And sorry, I don't see Guyton as much. Just a big play deep WR on occasion..... If he catches the ball. And so far it don't seem we will do much of that. Guyton to me isn't very impressive and he is the clear #3 WR right now.
Hopefully Palmer turns out to be much better.

I get that you are not touting Palmer as a Mike Williams replacement. I was expressing my concern that the team could view him that way as they hyped him up big time this preseason. To me, that is like saying that Roundtree is going to replace Ekeler completely. It is just stupid because the physical traits are not there and while there may have been the occasional solid play, there is nothing that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that Palmer could fully replace Williams. Nothing.

Also, I do not like the comparisons between Palmer and Jackson or Williams. Jackson and Williams both had/have clear big time plus traits that could be observed. My concern about Palmer is that he is more developed than those guys were when they first entered the league and he lacks big time elite traits. Williams really is a first round caliber player. Palmer has done nothing to show that he is more than just a guy.

For the same reason, your discussion about Lawrence is just wrong. He does demonstrate elite QB traits both running and throwing the ball and did play well against Cincinnati. Unfortunately for him, he plays for arguably the least talented team in the NFL.

I do not think Guyton is a great WR. I think he deserves to get his 30 receptions or so. My point about Guyton is that his deep game alone makes him much more valuable than Palmer, who has demonstrated no real game at all.

Given what the team was saying about him this preseason, I thought Palmer would be a much better player than he has proven to be so far and much more than a 1 reception per game kind of player.

[FoutsFan]

Actually, I think you missed the point. Sorenson hit Guyton right as the ball arrived. The ball could have been caught, but was far from a simple drop. We will never know what Williams or Allen would have done. Both have dropped far easier chances than that one this season.

I watched it on TV, they showed several replays. The ball hit his hands seconds before the Chef got there. It would have been a difficult catch but one a pro receiver should make 75% of the time.

[Guest]

Two options with Mike Williams:

(1) Pay up, and invest a not-insignificant chunk of cap space to keep him with the Bolts for the next 4-5 seasons.

(2) Say goodbye to Mike, and graciously accept the Compensatory 3rd round pick the club will get when Mike signs elsewhere.

That's pretty much it.

Josh Palmer is an entirely separate discussion, but I'll say *this*: He's had more snaps in three games as a rookie than K.J. Hill or Joe Reed did through their entire rookie seasons. He deserves time to acclimate and for the coaches to find the role he's uniquely suited to.

Palmer is not a separate discussion when others have been touting him from Day 1 as a player that will fully replace Mike Williams. Medieval peasants were closer to flying to the moon than Palmer is to fully replacing Williams.

Also, it is not clear that we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick for Williams. It could be a 4th round pick depending upon the signings of other free agents.

If we let Mike Williams go, then I think we would have to sign a free agent to replace him (why not sign Williams in that case) or use our first round pick on a WR, which counsels against letting Williams go.

If Williams is going to continue at his present rate in this offense, we need to re-sign him. Right now, he is just as important as Allen.

[Guest]

I watched it on TV, they showed several replays. The ball hit his hands seconds before the Chef got there. It would have been a difficult catch but one a pro receiver should make 75% of the time.

I have seen the replays too. I do not agree that there was a meaningful difference between the ball's arrival and Sorenson's. As I said, it was certainly catchable, but I do not think of that as a blown play (drop) by Guyton. Was Guyton scored with a drop on that play?

[Guest]

I think you’re overthinking things like you usually are. You don’t always need to pass on first down. And given we’ve seen, we’re still one of the best at passing on first downs. It’s okay to mix it up sometimes.

Nowhere have I suggested that we need to pass the ball on every first down. The point, of course, is that we ran the ball an Anthony Lynnesque 54+% on first down against KC. There is a gigantic difference between running 54+% of the time on first down and passing on every first down. Just as with Lynn, the running game was ineffective. The result was that we consistently put Herbert behind the sticks when we did that just we did all of last year.

I would skew the first down play selection such that it was more in line with our overall run pass distribution. More first down passes undoubtedly would have set up more second and short situations where we would be ahead of the sticks and could run or play action pass.

IMO, the offense would be more effective with such an approach.

And to be clear, this is mostly just switching the order of the plays called in several instances. We are currently 5th in the league in pass percentage (actually within 1.5% of what I consider to be ideal). We just need to mix up the running plays more in terms of when we are doing them. I am not suggesting that we throw on over 75% of the plays like Tampa Bay is doing.

[Xenos]

Nowhere have I suggested that we need to pass the ball on every first down. The point, of course, is that we ran the ball an Anthony Lynnesque 54+% on first down against KC. There is a gigantic difference between running 54+% of the time on first down and passing on every first down. Just as with Lynn, the running game was ineffective. The result was that we consistently put Herbert behind the sticks when we did that just we did all of last year.

I would skew the first down play selection such that it was more in line with our overall run pass distribution. More first down passes undoubtedly would have set up more second and short situations where we would be ahead of the sticks and could run or play action pass.

IMO, the offense would be more effective with such an approach.

And to be clear, this is mostly just switching the order of the plays called in several instances. We are currently 5th in the league in pass percentage (actually within 1.5% of what I consider to be ideal). We just need to mix up the running plays more in terms of when we are doing them. I am not suggesting that we throw on over 75% of the plays like Tampa Bay is doing.

The issue with our offense right now is our red zone offense which looks better after the Chiefs game, but should still trend upward. It’s hard to criticize the play calling when this has been our best game offensively so far. You’re nitpicking.

[jamrock]

I watched it on TV, they showed several replays. The ball hit his hands seconds before the Chef got there. It would have been a difficult catch but one a pro receiver should make 75% of the time.

It was a tremendous throw by Herbert rolling to his left. We’d be seeing endless replays on every sports show if Guyton had properly adjusted to the ball or even with the misjudgment had caught the pass that bounced off his 2 hands

[FoutsFan]

I have seen the replays too. I do not agree that there was a meaningful difference between the ball's arrival and Sorenson's. As I said, it was certainly catchable, but I do not think of that as a blown play (drop) by Guyton. Was Guyton scored with a drop on that play?

I have no idea what a scorer charged him with drop/no drop. As someone who played QB you better believe if I put a ball that a receiver got both hands on and didn't catch it, it wa a drop.

[like54ninjas]

I think you’re overthinking things like you usually are. You don’t always need to pass on first down. And given we’ve seen, we’re still one of the best at passing on first downs. It’s okay to mix it up sometimes.

Why be predictable either way?
I don’t want opponents passrushers pinning their ears back from snap 1 to snap 70.

[like54ninjas]

I have seen the replays too. I do not agree that there was a meaningful difference between the ball's arrival and Sorenson's. As I said, it was certainly catchable, but I do not think of that as a blown play (drop) by Guyton. Was Guyton scored with a drop on that play?

Penalty eliminates catch or drop.
‘I must be thinking of the wrong play by the other posts I’m reading.