Hire New DC and Replace Hill? (was Vic Fangio, Wink Martindale)

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  • Steve
    Administrator
    • Jun 2013
    • 6841
    • South Carolina
    • Meteorologist
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    Is Nwosu a good pass rusher who is inconsistent, or is he a marginal rusher who gets lucky from time to time? I do think he adds a solid depth type of guy, but he needs to step it up and get the kind of consistent production we need.

    Nwosu got a lot of snaps this year, yet was not super productive. A lot of people talked about how they felt (hoped) he would step up this season. He got 2x as many snaps as last year, but wasn't anymore productive than he was before (in terms of sacks)He is averaging less than 4 sacks per season over his career.

    I am not saying we need 3 pass rushers. I am saying we need at least 3 EDGE rushers and 2 or 3 IDL who can rush the QB. UP until now, we have 1 edge rusher who produces (Bosa) and Tillery and Jones, who are inconsistent. Tillery is at least somewhat productive. Jones was hurt for a third of the games but had some big plays in the games he did (had 2x as many sacks as in previous years combined).

    As far as the coverage guys, it is not about man-to-main coverage. We are a mostly zone team, so I could care less if we don't play man-to-man, although I do like that we mix in some man with the zone. However, the guys we have are not just kinda poor man players, they aren't great zone players either, so that is the problem. People tend to think that pass rush helps cover-up for bad coverage, and it does to a point, but with so many teams using quick passing to get rid of the ball to help their pass protection. So, pass coverage taking away a QB's first couple of reads gives the pass rushers a chance. Part of the reason that Staley had so much success with the Rams, was they got a HUGE number of coverage sacks. We need to cover better, to give our pass rushers the time to get to the QB.

    As far as adding players, I think another S like James and Adderley, a guy who plays S, but has some of the coverage skills of a CB (former CB maybe???). I really think we need a 3rd S. Again, Staley and all NFL teams want to be playing nickel and dime coverages because it means we are forcing teams to play from behind. But we need great players to play both the coverage. We need CB help too, but another S would be a nice addition to round out the roster. Gilman is a good player, but I don't think he has the speed to be a great player in our scheme, at least not in a regular basis on D. CB we could really use more speed at CB. Davis is the only CB we have that has good/great speed, and he is not very athletic or have the body control that I look for outside. Samuel is the only long term keeper we have at CB, in my mind. Davis might continue to improve some, but more competition would help in that area, so bring them in and let them compete. Plus you can never had enough depth.

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    • Berserker76
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Nov 2019
      • 1274
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      Originally posted by Steve View Post
      Is Nwosu a good pass rusher who is inconsistent, or is he a marginal rusher who gets lucky from time to time? I do think he adds a solid depth type of guy, but he needs to step it up and get the kind of consistent production we need.

      Nwosu got a lot of snaps this year, yet was not super productive. A lot of people talked about how they felt (hoped) he would step up this season. He got 2x as many snaps as last year, but wasn't anymore productive than he was before (in terms of sacks)He is averaging less than 4 sacks per season over his career.

      I am not saying we need 3 pass rushers. I am saying we need at least 3 EDGE rushers and 2 or 3 IDL who can rush the QB. UP until now, we have 1 edge rusher who produces (Bosa) and Tillery and Jones, who are inconsistent. Tillery is at least somewhat productive. Jones was hurt for a third of the games but had some big plays in the games he did (had 2x as many sacks as in previous years combined).

      As far as the coverage guys, it is not about man-to-main coverage. We are a mostly zone team, so I could care less if we don't play man-to-man, although I do like that we mix in some man with the zone. However, the guys we have are not just kinda poor man players, they aren't great zone players either, so that is the problem. People tend to think that pass rush helps cover-up for bad coverage, and it does to a point, but with so many teams using quick passing to get rid of the ball to help their pass protection. So, pass coverage taking away a QB's first couple of reads gives the pass rushers a chance. Part of the reason that Staley had so much success with the Rams, was they got a HUGE number of coverage sacks. We need to cover better, to give our pass rushers the time to get to the QB.

      As far as adding players, I think another S like James and Adderley, a guy who plays S, but has some of the coverage skills of a CB (former CB maybe???). I really think we need a 3rd S. Again, Staley and all NFL teams want to be playing nickel and dime coverages because it means we are forcing teams to play from behind. But we need great players to play both the coverage. We need CB help too, but another S would be a nice addition to round out the roster. Gilman is a good player, but I don't think he has the speed to be a great player in our scheme, at least not in a regular basis on D. CB we could really use more speed at CB. Davis is the only CB we have that has good/great speed, and he is not very athletic or have the body control that I look for outside. Samuel is the only long term keeper we have at CB, in my mind. Davis might continue to improve some, but more competition would help in that area, so bring them in and let them compete. Plus you can never had enough depth.
      Great analysis, Steve.

      Comment

      • ChargersPowderBlue
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Aug 2019
        • 1851
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        Originally posted by Steve View Post


        I am not saying we need 3 pass rushers. I am saying we need at least 3 EDGE rushers and 2 or 3 IDL who can rush the QB. UP until now, we have 1 edge rusher who produces (Bosa) and Tillery and Jones, who are inconsistent. Tillery is at least somewhat productive. Jones was hurt for a third of the games but had some big plays in the games he did (had 2x as many sacks as in previous years combined).

        Jones? Nah, he isn't really a good pusher. All the sacks he got last year were because of the other guys around him who created the opportunity for him. I still see what his pre-draft college scouting reports said about Jones regarding his pass rush ability. The Falcons game in 2020 was the only game I can recall where he did it on his own.

        Originally posted by Steve View Post

        As far as adding players, I think another S like James and Adderley, a guy who plays S, but has some of the coverage skills of a CB (former CB maybe???). I really think we need a 3rd S. Again, Staley and all NFL teams want to be playing nickel and dime coverages because it means we are forcing teams to play from behind. But we need great players to play both the coverage. We need CB help too, but another S would be a nice addition to round out the roster. Gilman is a good player, but I don't think he has the speed to be a great player in our scheme, at least not in a regular basis on D. CB we could really use more speed at CB. Davis is the only CB we have that has good/great speed, and he is not very athletic or have the body control that I look for outside. Samuel is the only long term keeper we have at CB, in my mind. Davis might continue to improve some, but more competition would help in that area, so bring them in and let them compete. Plus you can never had enough depth.
        We need more good coverage defenders period. Samuel is probably our best player at it, but he still has things to learn. Davis showed that he could handle TEs, and I think he would be better in the slot. We could do better than the backups we have to improve the secondary.

        Comment

        • Steve
          Administrator
          • Jun 2013
          • 6841
          • South Carolina
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          Originally posted by ChargersPowderBlue View Post

          Jones? Nah, he isn't really a good pusher. All the sacks he got last year were because of the other guys around him who created the opportunity for him. I still see what his pre-draft college scouting reports said about Jones regarding his pass rush ability. The Falcons game in 2020 was the only game I can recall where he did it on his own.
          Jones is decent at pass rush. Inside pass rushers just need to push the pocket and flush the QB out, or be there when the edge rushers force the QB to step up into the pocket. He certainly could be better, but Jones is adequate. But I am also not counting him as one of the 3 pass rushers, either inside or outside. We need other players who can provide more pressure, which is the point. Again Tillery is a decent inside rusher, and we can use some edge rusher lines up inside to provide some inside rush, but that means we need more edge rushers, and at least 1 more inside rusher on top of Tillery.



          Originally posted by ChargersPowderBlue View Post
          We need more good coverage defenders period. Samuel is probably our best player at it, but he still has things to learn. Davis showed that he could handle TEs, and I think he would be better in the slot. We could do better than the backups we have to improve the secondary.
          Davis might be better in the slot, but he is not that athletic and lacks the quickness to matchup inside. But he is the only CB we have who has really top-notch long speed. Samuel is a keeper. A lot of teams and draft types thought Samuel was a better fit inside than out, but he is athletic to matchup outside, even if he lacks ideal speed. I am not sure he can take the pounding though. Chris Harris is at the end of the line, and none of the rest are special. Most teams need 5 or 6 CB, so we really only have 2 that are keepers (Davis and Samuel), and a couple more who are OK, leaving a need for a couple more and a lot of room for improvement.

          S we have Adderly, Gilman and James. We could use one more, since Marshall didn't exactly distinguish himself. A former CB type would fit Staley's D well. More speed at CB would be nice too, since we play KC 2x per year.

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          • Z_Bee
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Aug 2019
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            Would love for Staley to hire Fangio. He seems to need some adult supervision at times, IMO.

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            • Boltjolt
              Dont let the PBs fool ya
              • Jun 2013
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              • Henderson, NV
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              Originally posted by Z_Bee View Post
              Would love for Staley to hire Fangio. He seems to need some adult supervision at times, IMO.
              Fangio said he is taking a year off.

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              • 21&500
                Bolt Spit-Baller
                • Sep 2018
                • 10672
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                Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post

                Fangio said he is taking a year off.
                No doubt looking for a club with a pro QB
                P1. Block Destruction - Ogbonnia
                P2. Shocking Effort - Eboigbe
                P3. Ball Disruption - Ford
                P4. Obnoxious Communication - Matlock

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                • foreigner
                  Tom Telesco is gone
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 2025
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                  Originally posted by 21&500 View Post

                  No doubt looking for a club with a pro QB
                  Herbert is going to make the Chargers an attractive spot for FAs... lets see what happens this offseason.

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                  • Xenos
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                    • Feb 2019
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                    As so many others have pointed out, getting a new DC was always a pipe dream since Staley is the playcaller. They’re going to fix the defensive problems through FA and the draft.

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                    • Boltjolt
                      Dont let the PBs fool ya
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 26881
                      • Henderson, NV
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                      Originally posted by 21&500 View Post

                      No doubt looking for a club with a pro QB
                      Paid year off so why not? I'd do it too. He isn't a spring chicken

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                      • Heatmiser
                        BetterToday ThanYesterday
                        • Jun 2013
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                        Originally posted by Xenos View Post
                        As so many others have pointed out, getting a new DC was always a pipe dream since Staley is the playcaller. They’re going to fix the defensive problems through FA and the draft.
                        Yep. Staley was brought in because he is the McVay of defense. Young Belicheck but with morals and integrity. Makes no sense to bring in a top notch DC. Would be like expecting Andy Reid to bring in a big name OC to run the KC offense. Ain't gonna happen

                        TG
                        Like, how am I a traitor? Your team are traitors.

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                        • sonorajim
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Jan 2019
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                          Originally posted by Xenos View Post
                          As so many others have pointed out, getting a new DC was always a pipe dream since Staley is the playcaller. They’re going to fix the defensive problems through FA and the draft.
                          FA, draft and coaching. Staley and the D staff will install some scheme and teaching changes as well as player personnel. They will move forward in year two with a lot more information to work with and base choices on.

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