Hire New DC and Replace Hill? (was Vic Fangio, Wink Martindale)

[Steve]

True, but I still think it is better to get burned occasionally and get a bunch of stops than it is to consistently give up long, time consuming drives to opponents. That would make a lot more sense with our death by 10,000 paper cuts short passing game, which I think can be just as effective at controlling the ball as teams with strong ground games.

I do think that a team needs to have good pass defenders to play the blitzing defense, which is what killed BAL this season when their CBs were lost due to injury.

You have to have GREAT DB. Players in pass defense on a blitz are in single coverage, or effectively in single coverage. Even in zone blitzes, the more blitzers that attack, the more removed from coverage and the fewer defenders for the same number of receivers and territory to defend. Any missed tackle, blown coverage, or even decent coverage on perfectly thrown balls (and there are a lot of perfectly thrown balls in the NFL), a blitzing D is giving up either excessive field position or TD. And we are talking fast player who are incredibly athletic, not guys you can pick up in the middle or late rounds.

To make the blitz D work you also need great pass rushers, and players who are good/great bltizers, plus they have to do their share of pass coverage. It takes a major commitment of draft and free agency resources. You can't use marginal players. Poor pass rusher leaves the coverage exposed, or the poor coverage doesn't stop the QB from getting rid of the ball quickly.

As far as the bend but don't break style, you also stop a lot of drives when the other team committs penalties. Long, extended drives are hard on offenses too.

Remember that just 1 season ago, the Staley bend but don't break D was the #1 in the NFL. Go back in history, and the bend but don't break is often more/most effective. For years the cover 2 D was all the rage, and it was bend but don't break. Gus Bradley Legion of Boom D has been all the rage. More often than not, it is more effective than a blitzing D.

Again, you can think what you want, but vertually no blitzing defenses run passing offenses of any kind. And when they are explosive offenses, like the Ravens, it is because they do it off long runs and play action passes. It goes through the running game.

[Steve]

Our more methodical offensive approach this year was most likely heavily influenced by the need to protect our defense - as long as the score was relatively close. Again - I'm convinced that Staley knew what he had on defense (not good - to be PC) and made strategic decisions to lessen it's impact to the extent he could. This also certainly played into his thought process when considering 4th down attempts.

It will be interesting to see if his strategic approach changes significantly next year if the defense improves.

I think it was the lack of talent on offense. Again, people seem to stick their heads in the sand, but in the games where we were overmatched at RG and RT, they tended to not take shots downfield, and relied on short passing and more methodical offense. It's not a coincident. If you can't block a long pass play, you can't call it. And inconsistent WR and RB didn't help things.

[Bolt-O]

Jags interviewed Fangio for the HC job. I think he'd rather be the boss than an assistant.

[Guest]

You have to have GREAT DB. Players in pass defense on a blitz are in single coverage, or effectively in single coverage. Even in zone blitzes, the more blitzers that attack, the more removed from coverage and the fewer defenders for the same number of receivers and territory to defend. Any missed tackle, blown coverage, or even decent coverage on perfectly thrown balls (and there are a lot of perfectly thrown balls in the NFL), a blitzing D is giving up either excessive field position or TD. And we are talking fast player who are incredibly athletic, not guys you can pick up in the middle or late rounds.

To make the blitz D work you also need great pass rushers, and players who are good/great bltizers, plus they have to do their share of pass coverage. It takes a major commitment of draft and free agency resources. You can't use marginal players. Poor pass rusher leaves the coverage exposed, or the poor coverage doesn't stop the QB from getting rid of the ball quickly.

As far as the bend but don't break style, you also stop a lot of drives when the other team committs penalties. Long, extended drives are hard on offenses too.

Remember that just 1 season ago, the Staley bend but don't break D was the #1 in the NFL. Go back in history, and the bend but don't break is often more/most effective. For years the cover 2 D was all the rage, and it was bend but don't break. Gus Bradley Legion of Boom D has been all the rage. More often than not, it is more effective than a blitzing D.

Again, you can think what you want, but vertually no blitzing defenses run passing offenses of any kind. And when they are explosive offenses, like the Ravens, it is because they do it off long runs and play action passes. It goes through the running game.

Staley's defense was #1 with Aaron Donald, the game's best defensive player.

I already showed that BAL's defense was in the top 7 in points and yards allowed for 3 straight seasons under Martindale. They had some good players, but nobody that I recall that would consider elite. BAL was not in the top 10 in sacks in any of those three seasons.

Yes, the occasional big play is surrendered, which, frankly, we are giving up anyway as it is. But the blitzing style of defense forces stops and gets the defense off of the field more quickly either way. I like our offense being on the field and do not like that Staley's defense gives our offense fewer possessions by remaining on the field. With a superior offense, it is bad strategy to shorten the game by extending the defense's time on the field. It is better to have lots of possessions to increase the odds that what should happen on paper does happen in reality.

Letting opponents take time off the clock and keep the ball away from Herbert is a win for our opponents independent of whether or not the drive in question results in points.

[Guest]

I think it was the lack of talent on offense. Again, people seem to stick their heads in the sand, but in the games where we were overmatched at RG and RT, they tended to not take shots downfield, and relied on short passing and more methodical offense. It's not a coincident. If you can't block a long pass play, you can't call it. And inconsistent WR and RB didn't help things.

Your position makes no sense in light of 2020. We threw more bombs then and our OL was arguably the worst in the NFL (31st in pass black win rate, 32nd in run block win rate). Sure, the offense had occasional issues in pass protection this year, but the protection was much better on the whole this year and yet the very deep passes were far less frequent. So that, clearly, is not the explanation for the change from 2020 to 2021.

This was one of the big issues with Lombardi and it was 100% by design. The problem was so bad that it was being discussed nationally by pundits, not just Chargers reporters. The opinion expressed was essentially, "For Pete's sake, Lombardi, would you please let Herbert throw the ball down the field?" And truer words were never spoken.

[21&500]

Opposing defenses played us much more conservatively
if they were going to get beat, it was not going to be because Herbert was allowed to have 4 deep bombs a game.

Mostly.

[Guest]

Opposing defenses played us much more conservatively
if they were going to get beat, it was not going to be because Herbert was allowed to have 4 deep bombs a game.

Mostly.

I think opposing defenses played us conservatively last year as well as Herbert's deep passing ability was known before he took an NFL snap and was known even better in short order thereafter. Sometimes it is possible to hit a big play against a defense that is on paper well suited to prevent the play in question.

What I saw was a designed lack of trying to hit those big plays for much of the season.

We had games (plural) in which we attempted zero such passes. But there will almost always be at least some more favorable situations on which to hit those plays because defenses are not just going to sit in the same defense no matter the down and distance all game long.

[Xenos]

Your position makes no sense in light of 2020. We threw more bombs then and our OL was arguably the worst in the NFL (31st in pass black win rate, 32nd in run block win rate). Sure, the offense had occasional issues in pass protection this year, but the protection was much better on the whole this year and yet the very deep passes were far less frequent. So that, clearly, is not the explanation for the change from 2020 to 2021.

This was one of the big issues with Lombardi and it was 100% by design. The problem was so bad that it was being discussed nationally by pundits, not just Chargers reporters. The opinion expressed was essentially, "For Pete's sake, Lombardi, would you please let Herbert throw the ball down the field?" And truer words were never spoken.

That first paragraph. Again with this nonsense despite so many others pointing out why using 2020 is a bad idea.

[Steve]

Staley's defense was #1 with Aaron Donald, the game's best defensive player.

I already showed that BAL's defense was in the top 7 in points and yards allowed for 3 straight seasons under Martindale. They had some good players, but nobody that I recall that would consider elite. BAL was not in the top 10 in sacks in any of those three seasons.

Yes, the occasional big play is surrendered, which, frankly, we are giving up anyway as it is. But the blitzing style of defense forces stops and gets the defense off of the field more quickly either way. I like our offense being on the field and do not like that Staley's defense gives our offense fewer possessions by remaining on the field. With a superior offense, it is bad strategy to shorten the game by extending the defense's time on the field. It is better to have lots of possessions to increase the odds that what should happen on paper does happen in reality.

Letting opponents take time off the clock and keep the ball away from Herbert is a win for our opponents independent of whether or not the drive in question results in points.

I don't know what you mean by shortening the game on offense. The idea of shortening the game is simply letting the clock run, and not running as many plays. Running offenses let the clock run down and just don't line up. Keep the other teams offense off the field and keep them from getting into synch. The idea is NOT to let teams run as many plays against the D. Exactly the opposite. Good defenses don't want to be on the field any more than bad defenses. They want to get the ball back as fast as possible and not let them run any plays.

But give the ball back more quickly, either by a 3 and out (incomplete passes, drops or misfires) potentially expose the blitzing D, so you run even if it is just to keep the other offense off the field. Keep them from getting into synch. Run the clock down and shorten the game, even if all you do is run the 40 second clock 3 times, so that the D is not going to have to defend.

If an offense is trying to maximize it's offensive possessions, you are doing the same with the other team. They get the ball back after your possesion, unless it is the end of the half.

[Steve]

Your position makes no sense in light of 2020. We threw more bombs then and our OL was arguably the worst in the NFL (31st in pass black win rate, 32nd in run block win rate). Sure, the offense had occasional issues in pass protection this year, but the protection was much better on the whole this year and yet the very deep passes were far less frequent. So that, clearly, is not the explanation for the change from 2020 to 2021.

This was one of the big issues with Lombardi and it was 100% by design. The problem was so bad that it was being discussed nationally by pundits, not just Chargers reporters. The opinion expressed was essentially, "For Pete's sake, Lombardi, would you please let Herbert throw the ball down the field?" And truer words were never spoken.

Herbert had an unprecedented season in 2020 making big plays while he was getting hit. It was historic in terms of plays made under pressure. But no coach is going to plan around letting their QB get hit.

West Coast offenses try to throw the ball downfield too. Lombardi was forced to game plan around our average-ish offensive talent. Normally, coaches get credit for overcoming poor talent at various positions, yet Chargers fans, especially you, seem to feel that the playcalling can overcome the talent we have and we should dominate. OUtside of Slater, Allen and Herbert, and Ekeler, who we were forced to play out of position (as a true RB as opposed to a 3rd down RB), left us with very little superior talent on O. Lombardi did a good job of piecing together an offense together despite it.

[Guest]

That first paragraph. Again with this nonsense despite so many others pointing out why using 2020 is a bad idea.

Nobody has offered a factually correct and meaningful explanation regarding why we could not throw very deep passes to the extent we did last year.

Many people have suggested that we could not this year because of the right side of our OL. The only problem with that is the right side of our OL and the entire OL were worse last year and yet we were able to throw very deep passes with greater regularity than we did this year.

Other people have offered the more plausible explanation that defenses played us more conservatively this year. But the notion that it took defenses all season long to figure out that we had an explosive offense with Herbert in the very deep passing game is not accurate either.

Other than Lombardi not dialing up as many shot plays where the very deep pass was the first option, I do not see an alternate explanation that makes sense.

[Guest]

Herbert had an unprecedented season in 2020 making big plays while he was getting hit. It was historic in terms of plays made under pressure. But no coach is going to plan around letting their QB get hit.

West Coast offenses try to throw the ball downfield too. Lombardi was forced to game plan around our average-ish offensive talent. Normally, coaches get credit for overcoming poor talent at various positions, yet Chargers fans, especially you, seem to feel that the playcalling can overcome the talent we have and we should dominate. OUtside of Slater, Allen and Herbert, and Ekeler, who we were forced to play out of position (as a true RB as opposed to a 3rd down RB), left us with very little superior talent on O. Lombardi did a good job of piecing together an offense together despite it.

I agree that West Coast offenses try to throw the ball down the field. My problem is not with the system. It is with Lombardi's play calling within the system.

Herbert was not hit too frequently in 2020. And his OL was much better this season. Three players on our OL sported a PFF grade of mid 70s or better with two being in the 80s. Last year, we had one guy crack the 60s and the rest were 50s and lower. This year, the 60s represented our worst OL player, who was the same guy as our best OL starter last year (Norton).

Our offense is loaded with talent. We have the best QB in the NFL right now. We have two 1,100 yard plus WRs, who represent a top 2 starting WR duo, plus a great speedy deep pass option in Guyton that we all but refused to use this year. Ekeler is a great all around RB. We have an above average starting OL on the whole (two players who are neither good nor horrible, 1 above average player, and two excellent players). Our TEs are at least average. With better play calling, the offense could be the #1 offense in the NFL as presently constituted. It is a joke to suggest that the offense has only average talent.

Despite superior OL talent by far to last year, Lombardi barely produced more points out of the offense than a Lynn-saddled Steichen did with the Staley going for it on 4th down points that would not have been scored last year factored out of the equation. I call that a gigantic underperformance by Lombardi.