TOP, Turnover Diff, Penalty's & 3rd Down Efficiency

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  • Steve
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    • Jun 2013
    • 6844
    • South Carolina
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    #25
    We are one of the big stat killer teams right now.

    One of the big stats that most people forget is there is a pretty stable number of plays per drive. So, explosive plays are important because on average, unless you get great field position, your drive will stall on you before you get in the endzone. So, to score, you need an explosive play (to be more productive then average) or better than average field position, or you won't get in scoring position. The Chargers under McCoy tend to do way better than average. That is how we were able to get the TOP. I don't think it means that we don't want the explosive plays, just that we are content to slowly plod down the field and score more slowly.

    All those idiots who love the DVOA get it wrong. DVOA assumes that you want to score as soon as possible, and to get the other team off the field as soon as possible. I don't think we are not trying to do those things, but coaches know that most of the time, we aren't going to just score a ton of points and shut them out. If you are being deliberate, controlling the clock, why is being efficient (statistically, making a consistent number of explosive plays) the goal?

    We want to keep our defense off the field, even if they are playing well (it is tough for the other team to score if they don't have the ball). We want to eat 5-10-15 minutes off the clock every time we touch the ball, so long as we score, and they don't. The point of the game is not to score as many points as possible, but to have more than the other guy at the END. We can afford to be inefficient (in the statistical sense) and just drive slowly, so long as we actually score.

    I still think we need to get the pass rushers and DB to be a lot more aggressive and take more penalties. Not that you want the penalties, just that we want them to be so aggressive/tight in their coverage and jumps off the ball, that it close on every play. In the end, that helps more than it hurts. Nothing is worse than an Derek Cox type of player who is so tentative that he can't even contest a play.

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    • Boltergeist
      Pesky apparition
      • Jun 2013
      • 893
      • Baja Oklahoma
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      #26
      Nothing is worse than an Derek Cox type of player who is so tentative that he can't even contest a play.
      An Elvis Patterson type player is worse.

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      • Sec-E4
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Sep 2014
        • 729
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        #27
        Matt Wilhelm sounds better

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        • MakoShark
          Disgruntled
          • Jun 2013
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          #28
          WEEK 2: vs Cincy

          I make these observations having not seen the game yet. I went to watch the USWNT destroy Haiti in a friendly soccer match :smile:

          TOP: 30:09 to 29:51 in favor of the Bolts. Seems to indicate a close game. But, then you look at the next stat and see why the TOP was not dominated by the Bolts like in last weeks victory.

          Turnover Diff: -1 again. -2 on the season and 6 turnovers in 2 games. I said it last week and now it is a glaring blemish. Clean this up now!

          Penalty's: 8 for 64 yards and 1 of those gave Cincy a 1st down. The trend is that a team will commit more penalty's on the road, especially with a loud crowd. See home field advantage. Without having seen the game yet I can't speak to how costly these penalty's were but on the surface this doesn't look good and, when considered with the 3 turnovers, it looks just plain sloppy.

          3rd down efficiency: 4 for 11 to Cincy's 4 for 10. Again this indicates a close hard fought game. For the offense we run this is well below what we will need to be successful over the long haul. Cincy's a tough D, but they aren't the only tough D and we will have to find a way to keep the chains moving in these types of games. I have to wonder how the penalty's factored into this part of the game.
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          • Steve
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            • Jun 2013
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            #29
            The actual number of penalties was a lot higher, they just didn't accept them all. We committed a lot of penalties, and none of them would be considered "smart" fouls. All of them were the pretty stupid variety.

            The real problem isn't the penalties or the 3rd down thing. It's when they occurred. They gave them a 1st down and they got field position and yards when we had forced them into adverse situations.

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            • MakoShark
              Disgruntled
              • Jun 2013
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              #30
              WEEK 3: The tail of the tape is deceiving this week. The positive that we strive for was subdued by the negative.

              TOP: 33:29 to 26:31 in favor of the Bolts. Most of this was in garbage time. The Vikings held the ball for most of the 3rd quarter squashing any chance at a comeback. Couldn't run, couldn't protect and Rivers was inaccurate all day. The 21 1st downs is also deceiving.

              Turnover diff: -1 AGAIN! 2 more turnovers and another pick 6! WTF!

              Penalty's: 7 for 74 yards and 2 of those resulted in Viking 1st downs. This team is so sloppy right now. I think it was Ian Eagle that said it best during the broadcast..."The Chargers can't get out of their own way."

              3rd down efficiency: Less than 50%. 8 of 17 and I didn't think it was that good. Garbage time makes this look better than it was.

              Our self inflicted wounds combined with an Oline that has no heart will make for a long season. Usually Rivers can help overcome a good portion of this teams weakness, but on a day when he isn't at his best the result is a blowout. The Team should give back their game checks for that lousy effort.
              Last edited by MakoShark; 09-29-2015, 04:20 AM.
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              • Lightningwill_420

                #31
                Originally posted by MakoShark View Post
                The tail of the tape is deceiving this week. The positive that we strive for was subdued by the negative.

                TOP: 33:29 to 26:31 in favor of the Bolts. Most of this was in garbage time. The Vikings held the ball for most of the 3rd quarter squashing any chance at a comeback. Couldn't run, couldn't protect and Rivers was inaccurate all day. The 21 1st downs is also deceiving.

                Turnover diff: -1 AGAIN! 2 more turnovers and another pick 6! WTF!

                Penalty's: 7 for 74 yards and 2 of those resulted in Viking 1st downs. This team is so sloppy right now. I think it was Ian Eagle that said it best during the broadcast..."The Chargers can't get out of their own way."

                3rd down efficiency: Less than 50%. 8 of 17 and I didn't think it was that good. Garbage time makes this look better than it was.

                Our self inflicted wounds combined with an Oline that has no heart will make for a long season. Usually Rivers can help overcome a good portion of this teams weakness, but on a day when he isn't at his best the result is a blowout. The Team should give back their game checks for that lousy effort.
                Rivers was inaccurate for Rivers - 62% with a couple drops by receivers. Rivers was more accurate than Bridgewater and threw for a lot more yards - even before garbage time.

                I don't think our O'line is without heart. I think our O'line is without cohesion. The injuries are killing us - they have no time to play together and figure out the best way to play beside one another. And the coaches aren't helping. Flip flopping between Fluker and his backup is doing us no good.

                Turnovers aren't helping, but, even if we hadn't turned the ball over, we would have lost.

                We couldn't stop the Vikings running game and we didn't even try to establish ours. We let the Vikes tee off on our quarterback even though we had to have known Rivers would get pounded if he threw the ball that many times. Our offensive coordinator has to lose his play-calling duty. Reich sucks.

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                • MakoShark
                  Disgruntled
                  • Jun 2013
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                  #32
                  Originally posted by Engine Engine Number 420 View Post
                  Rivers was inaccurate for Rivers - 62% with a couple drops by receivers. Rivers was more accurate than Bridgewater and threw for a lot more yards - even before garbage time.

                  I don't think our O'line is without heart. I think our O'line is without cohesion. The injuries are killing us - they have no time to play together and figure out the best way to play beside one another. And the coaches aren't helping. Flip flopping between Fluker and his backup is doing us no good.

                  Turnovers aren't helping, but, even if we hadn't turned the ball over, we would have lost.

                  We couldn't stop the Vikings running game and we didn't even try to establish ours. We let the Vikes tee off on our quarterback even though we had to have known Rivers would get pounded if he threw the ball that many times. Our offensive coordinator has to lose his play-calling duty. Reich sucks.
                  The receivers made Rivers stats appear better than they were. Rivers was consistently behind receivers or high with his throws, even before the pressure started to get to him.
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                  • Lightningwill_420

                    #33
                    Originally posted by MakoShark View Post
                    The receivers made Rivers stats appear better than they were. Rivers was consistently behind receivers or high with his throws, even before the pressure started to get to him.
                    Well there was that great catch by Phillips.
                    It was definitely an off day from Rivers - Rivers was still better than Bridgewater.
                    Now that Rivers got rocked in the ribs, he'll probably have a bunch of off days.
                    Thanks Reich for 34 pass plays behind a bunch of backup linemen.
                    It's not like we have a 1st-round running back we just traded multiple picks for.

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                    • richpjr
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Jun 2013
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                      • Nashville
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                      #34
                      Originally posted by Engine Engine Number 420 View Post
                      Rivers was inaccurate for Rivers - 62% with a couple drops by receivers. Rivers was more accurate than Bridgewater and threw for a lot more yards - even before garbage time.

                      I don't think our O'line is without heart. I think our O'line is without cohesion. The injuries are killing us - they have no time to play together and figure out the best way to play beside one another. And the coaches aren't helping. Flip flopping between Fluker and his backup is doing us no good.

                      Turnovers aren't helping, but, even if we hadn't turned the ball over, we would have lost.

                      We couldn't stop the Vikings running game and we didn't even try to establish ours. We let the Vikes tee off on our quarterback even though we had to have known Rivers would get pounded if he threw the ball that many times. Our offensive coordinator has to lose his play-calling duty. Reich sucks.
                      We had 3 healthy backup linemen, one banged up backup and one banged up starter in the game for most of the second half. It's amazing Rivers actually completed 62% of his passes!

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                      • Stinky Wizzleteats+
                        Grammar Police
                        • Jun 2013
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                        #35
                        Originally posted by Engine Engine Number 420 View Post
                        Rivers was inaccurate for Rivers - 62% with a couple drops by receivers. Rivers was more accurate than Bridgewater and threw for a lot more yards - even before garbage time.

                        I don't think our O'line is without heart. I think our O'line is without cohesion. The injuries are killing us - they have no time to play together and figure out the best way to play beside one another. And the coaches aren't helping. Flip flopping between Fluker and his backup is doing us no good.

                        Turnovers aren't helping, but, even if we hadn't turned the ball over, we would have lost.

                        We couldn't stop the Vikings running game and we didn't even try to establish ours. We let the Vikes tee off on our quarterback even though we had to have known Rivers would get pounded if he threw the ball that many times. Our offensive coordinator has to lose his play-calling duty. Reich sucks.
                        I see three key areas for major improvement, interior oline play in pass and run blocking. Hell its so bad I'm willing to see how Troutman plays at LG with Fluker at RG and Franklin at RT... File that under, you know it's bad when.

                        The dline especially the middle three Reyes Lisamor and Luigit. If they are playing the scheem it pretty much sucks if not, they suck. The more they suck the harder it is for our LBrs to get pressure and stop the run. The only one running clean in our backfield are opposing RBs.

                        Third without super blocking this scheme on offence has been figured out. It may play to Rivers and Woodheads strengths but it going to hurt Gordon's development.
                        Go Rivers!

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                        • richpjr
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Jun 2013
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                          • Nashville
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                          #36
                          For all of the well deserved scrutiny that the oline is generating, we have one sack in three games by the defense, last in the NFL. We won't go very far unless that is fixed as well.

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