Herbert vs His Peers

[jubei]

I think that the way the playoffs unfolded, if the Bengals had Herbert instead of Burrow in the playoffs, they are Super Bowl champions right now. Basically, everything was gift wrapped for the Bengals and their offense with screw ups by opposing QBs/offenses.

Just think about the plays on which just a little more athleticism at the QB position could have bought more time for plays to develop. It isn't difficult to imagine as Herbert did that for us throughout the 2020 season when we had the worst OL in the NFL.

At the end of the day, CIN needed a QB that could put the team on his back in the clutch and they do not have one. We do.

dont say that to the bengal believers. i still think burrow is a really good QB but athletically he falls short of Justin. Justin wins that QB class with Burrow a close 2nd. there is no 3rd IMO. But I just hope that QB class doesnt turn out to be like the 2004 QB class where the best QB didnt win shit and one of the worst (if not THE worst) QB performances didnt matter and he still won because he had a dominant D and very good run game.

[richpjr]

I think that the way the playoffs unfolded, if the Bengals had Herbert instead of Burrow in the playoffs, they are Super Bowl champions right now. Basically, everything was gift wrapped for the Bengals and their offense with screw ups by opposing QBs/offenses.

Just think about the plays on which just a little more athleticism at the QB position could have bought more time for plays to develop. It isn't difficult to imagine as Herbert did that for us throughout the 2020 season when we had the worst OL in the NFL.

At the end of the day, CIN needed a QB that could put the team on his back in the clutch and they do not have one. We do.

I am personally glad we have Herbert over Burrow, but I think you are harsh on him. Herbert clearly has a big leg up with his physical attributes but it's not like Burrow was Trent Dilfer out there this year. He was in the top 5 to 10 in just about every important stat.

[equivocation]

I am personally glad we have Herbert over Burrow, but I think you are harsh on him. Herbert clearly has a big leg up with his physical attributes but it's not like Burrow was Trent Dilfer out there this year. He was in the top 5 to 10 in just about every important stat.

Better than Dilfer. Worse than Montana. Or Gretzky. Lot of room in the middle there.

I know the NFL needs their storylines and all but "Joe Cool III" was more than a bit much.

[Guest]

I am personally glad we have Herbert over Burrow, but I think you are harsh on him. Herbert clearly has a big leg up with his physical attributes but it's not like Burrow was Trent Dilfer out there this year. He was in the top 5 to 10 in just about every important stat.

I think I am pretty accurate as things relate to Burrow.

In many of the stats, yes, he is in the top 10, but he was in the bottom 10 in INT% (even after a flukish run at the end of the season), and he was in the bottom 5 in sack percentage, which is in good part due to him holding the ball too long, which we also saw in these playoffs against both TEN and LAR (today). The sack percentage was also due in part to his OL. It was a combination of both.

Keep in mind, when forced to decide between close players, I have Burrow as the 11th best QB in the NFL and would be the first to say that he can be argued to be anywhere from #8 overall to #12 overall. It isn't like I think he is a bad QB. He is just not the QB that some have made him out to be.

My reference to Trent Dilfer was to describe the level of play at the end of the games against TEN and KC that it would have taken to get game winning FGs (both times the Bengals were given the ball on a turnover about 15 yards away from game winning FG range) when some were talking about Burrow somehow putting the team on his back and carrying them to victory. I think it it was closer to the team, especially the defense, putting Burrow on its back and carrying Burrow to victory.

I love that we have Herbert too. I am in Rex Ryan's camp. I would take Herbert over every other player in the league right now.

[Guest]

Better than Dilfer. Worse than Montana. Or Gretzky. Lot of room in the middle there.

I know the NFL needs their storylines and all but "Joe Cool III" was more than a bit much.

Yeah, he is clearly overhyped. He is not among the best QBs, but I think he is an above average QB.

[gzubeck]

I think I am pretty accurate as things relate to Burrow.

In many of the stats, yes, he is in the top 10, but he was in the bottom 10 in INT% (even after a flukish run at the end of the season), and he was in the bottom 5 in sack percentage, which is in good part due to him holding the ball too long, which we also saw in these playoffs against both TEN and LAR (today). The sack percentage was also due in part to his OL. It was a combination of both.

Keep in mind, when forced to decide between close players, I have Burrow as the 11th best QB in the NFL and would be the first to say that he can be argued to be anywhere from #8 overall to #12 overall. It isn't like I think he is a bad QB. He is just not the QB that some have made him out to be.

My reference to Trent Dilfer was to describe the level of play at the end of the games against TEN and KC that it would have taken to get game winning FGs (both times the Bengals were given the ball on a turnover about 15 yards away from game winning FG range) when some were talking about Burrow somehow putting the team on his back and carrying them to victory. I think it it was closer to the team, especially the defense, putting Burrow on its back and carrying Burrow to victory.

I love that we have Herbert too. I am in Rex Ryan's camp. I would take Herbert over every other player in the league right now.

Telesco and Staley should be having nightmares about how they fucked up this kid's season this past year!

:beer:

[Guest]

Uzomah was open on the 4th and 1 at the end of the game. If the ball comes out on time and on target, the Bengals would have had a first down. There was a defender covering the outside but off of Uzomah, so the ball would have needed some pace on it to prevent the defender from making a play on the ball. Maybe Burrow realized that unlike some other QBs, he could not make that throw. Herbert would have made that play all day long.

[DerwinBosa]

[QUOTE=chaincrusher;n1319098]

I think I am pretty accurate as things relate to Burrow.

/QUOTE]

Respectfully you're not. He got to a Super Bowl and almost helped his team win it in spite of getting sacked a total of 19 times this postseason (you'll say he held onto the ball too long). This was after coming back from a torn ACL and MCL that most believed would cause him to miss the first month of the season. He got sacked seven times yesterday (you'll say he held onto the ball too long) and was gutting out in the fourth quarter after injuring his right knee, which will be evaluated when he gets back to Cincinnati. He was playing against a defense that held Tom Brady and the Bucs' offense in check until the Rams' offense nearly fumbled that game away. Brady completed only 30 of 54 passes in that game and turned the ball over twice. This same Rams defense held Kyler Murray to 137 passing yards, no touchdowns, and two interceptions in the Wild Card round, frustrating him to the point it is being reported he didn't want to finish the game.

Burrow wasn't great yesterday. He missed on a few passes. You'll overdramatize all of it and try to make other quarterbacks look better than him (such as Lamar Jackson) simply because you want Herbert to be considered superior to Burrow. Fans of Burrow could do the same with Herbert, by overlooking all the good he did and pointing to how he threw a bad interception in the fourth quarter against the Raiders and didn't get the touchdown in overtime that could have ended that game and gotten us into the playoffs. They could also do the same regarding Herbert not getting us into field goal range at the end of the fourth quarter in the second game against the Chiefs.

The AFC has a group of young quarterback who could be as great as the ones in the late 1980s and early 1990s (Marino, Elway, Kelly, Moon). Back then, however, fans were more concerned about their teams winning Super Bowls, not who was considered the best quarterback. Now it's at the point where people like you were probably rooting for the Raiders and Chiefs against the Bengals this postseason so Burrow would look bad in comparison to Herbert.

[DerwinBosa]

I know the NFL needs their storylines and all but "Joe Cool III" was more than a bit much.

Namath is one of the most overrated quarterbacks of all time. The guarantee and the Jets beating the Colts got him into the Hall Of Fame. Without that he would have never come close to getting in.

Montana is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time (I consider him the best I've seen). Burrow has a long way to go before he can be considered in the same class as him. I get how Burrow was in a position to reach the same achievements that only Namath and Montana possess (National Championship and Super Bowl title), but I think "Joe Cool" should belong only to Montana.

[richpjr]

Wow. Makes me so glad to have a guy like Herbert

Report: Kyler Murray Told Colt McCoy 'I'm Done' Before End of Playoff Game

The relationship between the Cardinals and QB Kyler Murray seems to be rocky lately, something that came to a head in their playoff loss to the Rams.

NFL Network’s Mike Garafolo reports Murray asked out of the game near the end of the fourth quarter when it was clear Arizona was going to lose.

“The playoff game [in Los Angeles] a minute left, the game had been decided, backup Colt McCoy encouraged Murray to finish the game with his teammates,” Garafolo said. “A banged-up Murray said no, that’s it, I’m done.”

Garafolo added Arizona took note of that decision by Murray.

“A lot of Cardinals folks were not happy with that.”

Earlier today, ESPN’s Chris Mortensen also reported the team’s disappointment with Murray, with a source describing Murray as “self-centered, immature and (a) finger pointer.”

Garafolo mentioned the team still needs to sit down with Murray to talk it out, but it would like Murray to improve as a leader.

“They’re looking for Murray to take a step forward in a number of areas. We’re talking about maturity, body language on the sideline, having a bigger voice with his teammates and leadership.”

The Cardinals put out a statement earlier today, per Pro Football Talk:

“Nothing has changed regarding our opinion and high regard for Kyler Murray. We as a team and Kyler individually have improved each year he’s been in the league. We are excited to continue that improvement in 2022 and are excited that Kyler Murray is the quarterback leading us.”

[jubei]

Wow. Makes me so glad to have a guy like Herbert

I hadnt read the whole article on murray but just a snippet of how the cards wanted more leadership and maturity outa him. this went way deeper than I thought. NOT a good look for a QB...abilities but the mental size of a leaf. getting a diva mentality cuz the team was improving each year under him?

[Xenos]

I think Burrow is a good QB. I haven't seen any greatness from him yet. Chase is great. Bengals had great luck. Burrow is good but couldn't carry the team when they needed him, over and over and over.

I think if his OL wasn’t the worst in the league and the Rams one of the best front seven, it would have been much more different. As it is, I don’t think there’s many QBs that could succeed in those situations.