Herbert vs His Peers

[dmac_bolt]

Herbert is arguably the best QB in the NFL right now. It is sad that you do not see and appreciate what we have. He was Rookie of the Year. He was the starting Pro Bowl QB (on a team that Burrow failed to qualify as even being in the top 3). Herbert is on the three person ballot in the entire NFL for Fed Ex Air Player of the Year. Burrow is not. Herbert is on pace to be an all time great QB. Burrow, not so much.

Many of Burrow's stats did improve (they had nowhere to go but up) with tons of help from Chase, but he regressed badly in INT%, still finishing in the worst 10 QBs even after a flukish finish to the season in terms of avoiding INTs in his last 4 games.

Herbert basically carried the team to victory in game after game this year. Burrow was small in the clutch and continues to be small in the clutch in these playoffs.

It was basically a consistent theme from the fan forums of other teams that they did not want their team to play us in the playoffs when it came to choice of opponent. That sentiment was not out there because our defense was great. It was out there because fans of other teams can see what Herbert is and want no part of him in the playoffs if they had their preference.

I agree 100% on Herbie. I already dub him the best Charger QB ever. Stats and accolades will follow, the future is already written.

Noting that when your argument is solid, it only takes a couple paragraphs

[HerbieParadigm]

AFC is in great shape via Herbert, Allen, Mahomes, & Burrows. This is the order I would rate their play this year purely via the game watching eye test. Burrows advantage over Herbert with ball placement (key metric for YAC) will be overcome next year given Herbert finally having coaching continuity. Excellent previous points made about Oregon mis/under-utilizing Herbert. As a Ducks fan, pleased they have a new HC.

[Guest]

The biggest load of garbage ever. Are you even playing with a full deck. What world are you living in. Your need to be right is a fatal flaw for your debate skills. All logic goes out the window. And definitive statement like if Burrow played these game then all loses is truly absurd. You would get laugh out of the courtroom if your presented the above pile of shit arguments.

Answer this 1 question or plead the 5th?!!!!
Don't address anything else.
Just this one question below.
And then you can go any direction you would like.

Chainy!!! I will remind you this is being recorded within the thread posts. And you need not worry, the answer to this question clearly has no impact on your opinion of the QBs involved in this debate. But nevertheless it would be nice to see you answer a simple question directly with a simple answer.

It's not an opinion question.
It's a fact question with only one valid answer.

And now the question.

Who was the most accurate and on target QB in the NFL this season?

:hello:

If you indeed did answer correctly.
Can you then explain your opinion on how QB accuracy can impact winning games and keeping drives alive, etc. Or you can explain how QB accuracy and on target throws is not a meaningful stat in terms of QB ability and success. However you like to disect QB accuracy/on target throws and it's impact on winning or lack thereof, go for it.

Herbert is more talented than Burrow and therefore routinely makes plays that are beyond Burrow's ability. That is a fact that you seem to want to ignore at all costs.

Given Burrow's already bottom 10 INT rate (another fact you try to ignore at all costs), he would have been dead meat trying to make all of the sideline throws that Lombardi asked Herbert to make. Further, Herbert had to make fitted passes that would have been disastrous for Burrow to attempt (because the defenders do not always drop Burrow's INT balls (only sometimes).

You were the one that suggested that we would have won more games with Burrow than Herbert. I pointed out games that we likely would have lost with Burrow instead of Herbert. You seemed to have no trouble making the assertion without any real evidence (since Burrow did not actually play for us), but now you complain and cannot take the heat when anyone actually tries to break down your lame assertion with examples of multiple games that likely would have presented the opposite result (losses with Burrow where games were won with Herbert), games where Herbert's elite physical ability and amazing play in the clutch was on full display.

And other games that were lost would not have been as close. It is laughable that you would think that in the season's last game, Burrow could have made the 4th and 21 throw to Palmer, the TD pass at the end of regulation to Williams, or the tight window sideline zipped pass to Ekeler for the two-point conversion before the defender could play the ball. Let me help you. Burrow makes none of those throws. He lacks the arm talent to do so. It is really as simple as that. You see, accuracy is only part of what was needed on those passes and while Burrow is an accurate passer, he is not a physical stud like Herbert is, so he can only dream of what it must be like to be able to make those and so many other passes that are beyond Burrow's ability that Herbert makes on a routine basis.

In addition to Burrow having less physical ability, Burrow's lack of clutch results also speak to this issue. Herbert had numerous 4th quarter comebacks this season. Burrow had all of two. I think this has a lot to do with the physical ability of the QB or lack thereof to put the team on his shoulders and will the team to victory. The more physically talented QBs seem to be able to do this (QBs such as Herbert, Allen and Mahomes). They have better ability to force the action in the clutch when necessary.

And you actually stated in another post that Burrow plays his best in the most important games. Burrow actually has come up small in his last two playoff games, which were presumably his most important to date. And the later in the game it gets, the worse Burrow seems to play as I have already pointed out on multiple occasions as he threw a late third quarter and 4th quarter INT in his last two games.

It is not only not garbage that Burrow had a loaded team at LSU when LSU won the national championship, I actually understated just how great that LSU team was. LSU tied an NFL record with 14 players drafted in the 2020 draft class. And that does not conclude players like Chase, who waited a year to enter the NFL.

It must have been tough for Burrow to have an entire skilled position set of players be good enough to make the NFL with Justin Jefferson (1st round pick), Ja'Marr Chase (1st round pick), Clyde Edwards-Helaire (1st round pick), Terrace Marshall (2nd round pick) and Thaddeus Moss (practice squad player) all having 40+ receptions for LSU that season. So, there was Burrow, an above average QB at the NFL level at this point, playing with two elite NFL WRs, a good prospect WR in Marshall, and a solid TE good enough to make an NFL practice squad, plus a solid NFL first round pick at RB. All of that on one college team. Do you think just maybe that a lot of QBs would have won a college championship when surrounded by that much talent?

Right now, Burrow is only the third best player in the above described group of LSU offensive players.

Further, I posited that if Jefferson and Chase were on any one NFL team right now, that would be a better set of two WRs than exists on any current NFL roster and Burrow had that quality at WR on his college team. You have offered nothing to challenge that. Any half way decent QB would have had success with that set of LSU skill position players.

[Guest]

Burrow reaction on sideline after the Bengals beat KC was that of somebody who hasn't finished his mission yet. Just a small fist pump and didn't even smile. If a QB is going to become unglued in this superbowl, it would be Stafford trying to do too much Burrow doesn't flinch. And his history says he plays his best in the biggest games.

Burrow reacted exactly like a player that knows he did not play very well would react. The TEN and KC games literally tend to prove the exact opposite of what you are claiming about Burrow playing his best in the biggest games. Both games were blow average NFL QB performances. Burrow was horrible against TEN in particular.

[Critty]

Herbert is more talented than Burrow and therefore routinely makes plays that are beyond Burrow's ability. That is a fact that you seem to want to ignore at all costs.

Good grief.

Just start your whole post with a flat out lie that is verifiably false. Go check my 1st post that you originally responded to smart guy. I already mentioned Herbert physical tools, arm talent and throws Burrow can't make.

Again check the post, I said Burrow may have won another game because of accuracy. You were the one who made it a definitive statement as Burrow would indeed have more losses. The difference is obvious. And you try and make it similar. Typically lying lawyering garbage.
Is that what they teach you in law school, ignore the verifiable facts and just make up whatever you want and go on
the attack.

Then spew a bunch of information and never directly answer the question.

Since you didn't even attempt to answer the question that had only 1 valid answer.
You would have been better off pleading the 5th.

You get an F for fail on this debate.
But you deserve a P for pathetic.

[Critty]

Burrow reacted exactly like a player that knows he did not play very well would react. The TEN and KC games literally tend to prove the exact opposite of what you are claiming about Burrow playing his best in the biggest games. Both games were blow average NFL QB performances. Burrow was horrible against TEN in particular.

No.
Burrow reaction was not that of a player who didnt play well
That simply your opinion. And it's incorrect. You clearly haven't watch Burrow and how he behaves. This is how he celebrates when there is more left to do. You truly in your own made up world at times. Any chance you put your feet back down on earth and see what's really going on here.

I suppose you will just attack Burrow statement below.
It's what you do. Enjoy!

"I think the fans were very excited but I try to downplay it and all that because this is how it's going to be from here on out," Burrow said after the win over the Raiders. "It was a great win for us but this is the standard for the bare minimum every year going forward."

[Xenos]

this is a tough vote on who I want to win the SB. I dont care for stafford as I feel he relies too much on physical traits and not on mental traits. I dunno, that's just me. But I thought it was hilarious when he thought he had a JH arm and try to launch that bomb in his last game and had it fall TERRIBLY short! And if Burrow wins it...same draft class as our boy. You never want a same-draft guy beat your guy to the SB. But at least I like Burrow more than Stafford. Stafford just somehow rubs me wrong and I cant put my finger on why...

I like Stafford and Whitworth on the Rams. I just hate everyone else there more than I do the Bengals.

[jamrock]

AFC is in great shape via Herbert, Allen, Mahomes, & Burrows. This is the order I would rate their play this year purely via the game watching eye test. Burrows advantage over Herbert with ball placement (key metric for YAC) will be overcome next year given Herbert finally having coaching continuity. Excellent previous points made about Oregon mis/under-utilizing Herbert. As a Ducks fan, pleased they have a new HC.

With Lawrence now paired with Doug Pederson and Tua with Mike McDaniel added to your list.

[Bolt-O]

I changed the thread title so other QBs besides Burrow could be discussed. I have a feeling that it might be a while before we know who might be the best between Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Allen and the class of 2021, so why just focus on Burrow v. Herbert. I'm so glad we have Herbert, and don't really care if he's 'elite'.. what ever that standard is.

[Guest]

Good grief.

Just start your whole post with a flat out lie that is verifiably false. Go check my 1st post that you originally responded to smart guy. I already mentioned Herbert physical tools, arm talent and throws Burrow can't make.

Again check the post, I said Burrow may have won another game because of accuracy. You were the one who made it a definitive statement as Burrow would indeed have more losses. The difference is obvious. And you try and make it similar. Typically lying lawyering garbage.
Is that what they teach you in law school, ignore the verifiable facts and just make up whatever you want and go on
the attack.

Then spew a bunch of information and never directly answer the question.

Since you didn't even attempt to answer the question that had only 1 valid answer.
You would have been better off pleading the 5th.

You get an F for fail on this debate.
But you deserve a P for pathetic.

Thank you for the complete and utter nonsensical garbage post that fails to refute a single point I made. Your tacit concession of those points is noted.

[Guest]

No.
Burrow reaction was not that of a player who didnt play well
That simply your opinion. And it's incorrect. You clearly haven't watch Burrow and how he behaves. This is how he celebrates when there is more left to do. You truly in your own made up world at times. Any chance you put your feet back down on earth and see what's really going on here.

I suppose you will just attack Burrow statement below.
It's what you do. Enjoy!

"I think the fans were very excited but I try to downplay it and all that because this is how it's going to be from here on out," Burrow said after the win over the Raiders. "It was a great win for us but this is the standard for the bare minimum every year going forward."

Your post establishes nothing. Burrow did react like a player that knows that he did not play well. And I am sure that Burrow knows that he did not play well in either game.

[Xenos]

With Lawrence now paired with Doug Pederson and Tua with Mike McDaniel added to your list.

Lawrence yes. Tua is just too limited physically IMO. His prime is a nice mid tier guy ie. Andy Dalton