Herbert vs His Peers

[JustAnotherFan]

A lot is being said in the media about how great Burrow is playing.
I decided to do some number comparisons of Burrow vs Herbert vs the playoff bound teams they played this season.
Both Herbert and Burrow played 9 teams that made the playoffs.
(This includes the 3 playoff games of Bengals, and yes, that means in the regular season, Bengals played 3 playoff bound teams fewer than the Chargers.)

The Burrow lead Bengals averaged 27.6 points per game on offense vs playoff bound teams.
The Herbert led Chargers averaged 29.8 points per game on offense vs playoff bound teams.

In those same games...
The Bengals defense allowed 19.3 points per game.
The Chargers defense allowed 26.3 points per game.

Conclusion from this rather simplistic statistical comparison:
Burrow did a great job, 27.6 points per game vs elite competition is great, but it's the defense that carried them, 19.3 points allowed is spectacular vs elite teams.
Herbert did an even better job than Burrow, 2.2 points per game better vs elite competition, but the Charger defense let him down, 26.3 is not good, not by any means.

EDIT, there was a typo in the original numbers. Fixed
--

Moderator edit... topic changed to include all other QB peers.

[BlazingBolt]

We should go to twitter with this information to prove once and for all Burrow has more help and Herbert is the better QB......I'm sure while they are preparing for the superbowl they will be sad they didnt get Herbert instead.

[Bolt-O]

I'll probably move/"merge" this to the Herbert superthread, unless it gets traction.

[Steve]

One player, even at QB, is not going to get you to, let alone win a SB. It takes a team.

The Bengals did a great job of starting to peak at the right time. But lets remember, when we played them, we did beat them pretty handily in December (41-22).

If the Chargers bring their A-game, they can play with anyone right now. They are an incredibly frustrating team because of how inconsistent they are, and that is what probably would have kept us out of the SB, even if we had made the playoffs. But even with all the holes we have, the Chargers can compete. Fix some of those holes, and we will do even better.

[Malworthy]

Adding to this comparison, going to give out some side-by-sides:

	Herbert	Burrow
Total Yards	5014	4611
Pass Att/Int	672/15	540/14
Completions	443	366
1st Downs	256	202
4th Comp/Att	22/34	13/20

Would also like to note that Chargers had the most dropped passes in the NFL this year. Allen (9), Cook (6), and Ekeler (6) all made the top 10 droppers list, while Chase (9) was the only Bengal on there. Love our offense still, but it definitely was problem in some very crucial moments. Outside of statistics though, I think both quarterbacks are great. Thing is, Herbert makes some ridiculous throws on a near regular basis that I don't see Burrow doing. Call it magical I guess.

[Velo]

Burrow and Herbert are equal. Burrow seems to have a little better grasp on running the offense and reading defenses at this point, and I think he throws with better touch than Herbert. Herbert has the stronger arm and I think he is a bit more of a threat as a runner. But you honestly cannot put one over the other right now. They are both among the elite of the elite after two seasons.

The Chargers however have the better roster personnel-wise. The Chargers having twice as many players in the Pro Bowl is proof of that. But the Bengals have a solid coaching staff, starting with their head coach. The Chargers' head coach was in over his head in his first year, and the cost the Chargers a spot in the post-season.

[RTPbolt]

As a player I like Herbert's decision making better. I'm not saying Burrow is bad but Burrow taking so many sacks is IMO due to him trying to hold onto the ball when he should be throwing it away. Loss of yardage is important and Herbert seemed to learn from year one better to throw it away if the play isn't there. Sure burrows line is suspect but he needs to decide more decisively on whether to hold on, run or throw it away. Burrow doesn't have a high INT rate though like Herb so they make good decisions when under pressure in general by not throwing it for INTs.

Herb has a far better arm....no question there. He can make throws with his gun few can and Burrow isn't in that class. This helps at times give an edge to being able to make throws when DBs think the play is over and they can't get an opportunity to jump a throw to intercept it. Burrow in the last few games I've watched has floated balls in there which were a bit concerning.

On the run....Burrow seems to struggle a bit running and throwing with accuracy. Herb and Mahomes are far more natural.

That said Burrow for a 2nd year guy has played very well. He hasn't done the stupid things that young players tend to do to lose games...stays in control. He's a definite keeper and will improve over time. Less of an athlete but as Brady has shown you dont have to be to succeed (outside of cheating of course).

Cincy hands down has a better defense at this time. They have had more years to get the scheme down and play properly together and they have some good players. They aren't all world but they seem to adjust enough in the 2nd half to give the ball back to the Offense enough to allow the come backs. Of course they've let teams get to a lead too in the 1st half which is a problem but overall they have been good enough to combine with the offense to win against good competition. I expect in year 2 we will make player adjustments and another year in the system will do us good.

I dont agree Staley was in over his head. Yes he made a few decisions that did not turn out but I think he has a rare leadership ability and had a plan from day 1. We may not agree on him but the guy has balls of steel and wasn't afraid to make decisions. He manage the clock far better than Lynn or McCoy and never seemed to let the game get him with the deer in the headlights look. He's a fighter and given time I think will be a great coach. This is year 1....I think too many dont consider the amount of work it takes to come in fresh and try to turn a teams both Offense and Defensive schemes on their heads with coaches and players....to expect too much is unrealistic. To be honest for a 1st year HC I'm more than impressed...this guy gets people and the X's and O's. We just need to give him time to learn and adjust.

[Riverwalk]

Dick measuring of these two QB’s seems unnecessary.

Chargers 2021 defense would have held Joe Cool out of the playoffs too.

[Guest]

We should go to twitter with this information to prove once and for all Burrow has more help and Herbert is the better QB......I'm sure while they are preparing for the superbowl they will be sad they didnt get Herbert instead.

Their sadness will come when they lose to the Rams in the Super Bowl in a game they would have won had they had Herbert.

[Guest]

As a player I like Herbert's decision making better. I'm not saying Burrow is bad but Burrow taking so many sacks is IMO due to him trying to hold onto the ball when he should be throwing it away. Loss of yardage is important and Herbert seemed to learn from year one better to throw it away if the play isn't there. Sure burrows line is suspect but he needs to decide more decisively on whether to hold on, run or throw it away. Burrow doesn't have a high INT rate though like Herb so they make good decisions when under pressure in general by not throwing it for INTs.

Herb has a far better arm....no question there. He can make throws with his gun few can and Burrow isn't in that class. This helps at times give an edge to being able to make throws when DBs think the play is over and they can't get an opportunity to jump a throw to intercept it. Burrow in the last few games I've watched has floated balls in there which were a bit concerning.

On the run....Burrow seems to struggle a bit running and throwing with accuracy. Herb and Mahomes are far more natural.

That said Burrow for a 2nd year guy has played very well. He hasn't done the stupid things that young players tend to do to lose games...stays in control. He's a definite keeper and will improve over time. Less of an athlete but as Brady has shown you dont have to be to succeed (outside of cheating of course).

Cincy hands down has a better defense at this time. They have had more years to get the scheme down and play properly together and they have some good players. They aren't all world but they seem to adjust enough in the 2nd half to give the ball back to the Offense enough to allow the come backs. Of course they've let teams get to a lead too in the 1st half which is a problem but overall they have been good enough to combine with the offense to win against good competition. I expect in year 2 we will make player adjustments and another year in the system will do us good.

I dont agree Staley was in over his head. Yes he made a few decisions that did not turn out but I think he has a rare leadership ability and had a plan from day 1. We may not agree on him but the guy has balls of steel and wasn't afraid to make decisions. He manage the clock far better than Lynn or McCoy and never seemed to let the game get him with the deer in the headlights look. He's a fighter and given time I think will be a great coach. This is year 1....I think too many dont consider the amount of work it takes to come in fresh and try to turn a teams both Offense and Defensive schemes on their heads with coaches and players....to expect too much is unrealistic. To be honest for a 1st year HC I'm more than impressed...this guy gets people and the X's and O's. We just need to give him time to learn and adjust.

I agree with almost everything stated in this post, especially the point about Burrow holding the ball too long, which seemingly everyone blames on his OL when it is often on Burrow. Virtually all of the points made are right on the money.

The lack physical tools on Burrow's part could not be more obvious.

The take on Staley is spot on. My biggest regret is that we were not more aggressive on one occasion--right after Williams' TD reception at the end of regulation against the Raiders. If it is me, I am putting the season in Herbert's hands right then and there--no loss because of an OT coin toss. I am trusting Herbert all the way in that moment.

The one minor, very minor, factual quibble I have is with the statement that Burrow does not have a high INT rate. He did finish 9th in highest INT rate and it was only because he finished with no INTs in his last 4 regular season games that he finished with only that poor of a result. For much of the season, he had the highest INT rate of any non-rookie QB in the entire NFL. 3 of the 8 QBs that finished with a higher INT rate this season were rookies.

[Maniaque 6]

Herbert would have been more comfortable with the 2 points conversion at the end of that game than a 4th and 8 from his 20 !

[ChargersPowderBlue]

The Chargers however have the better roster personnel-wise. The Chargers having twice as many players in the Pro Bowl is proof of that. But the Bengals have a solid coaching staff, starting with their head coach. The Chargers' head coach was in over his head in his first year, and the cost the Chargers a spot in the post-season.

Chargers are 30th in run stopping, the only two teams worse are the Texans and Steelers. They are last in the league on third down defense. You think that is a better roster personnel wise? Those things stated are the case for a reason. The Bengals have a better defense. On offense, the teams are equal. The Bengals have the better receivers, but the Chargers have the better OL. The two teams are equal when it comes to the run game.

Lets face it. The Pro Bowl is a joke. There are players who don't deserve to be there, but get placed there because they have to take the place of a guy who has to pull out. So it skews the idea on who is worthy.

No, the Bengals do not have a better coach. Zac Taylor is lucky he has things going well for him to cover up the bad things he does as a coach. Staley is doing more with a roster that is not that good in his first season, than Taylor has done in his first season in Cincinnati. When Taylor only had two wins with the Bengals in 2019, the Chargers were 5-11. The Chargers talent level has been overrated for 3 years. 2021 was the year when people got humbled about it. Staley has to clean up the mess that Lynn and his coaching staff left behind.