Thoughts On Cutting Keenan Allen?

[jamrock]

Hill was traded and is still playing at a high level. Some people here want Allen released to make cap room. There is also a big difference between the Chargers
and Chiefs. Chiefs have Reid, Mahomes and Kelce. The Chargers have Staley, Herbert and ?.

Yeah big difference. Men against boys especially when it comes to coaching. It doesn’t matter who the ? is does it?

[jamrock]

Did losing WR1 Tyreek Hill sink the 2023 Chiefs or did their later round draft picks at the skill position secure another world championship?



Did the Dallas Cowboys go in the tank on offense as predicted by the nattering nabobs of negativity when they lost OL La'el Collins, WR Amari Cooper, and WR Cedrick Wilson?



IMO, both KC and Dallas reloaded on offense and defense with excellent drafts and achieved playoff berths, both surpassing the previous seasons' results. Same story with Seattle. Built their lines first, then went to the playoffs.

The Chiefs got incredible results from their draft on offense and defense. We got 1 guy that contributed. They got 5-6

[ghost]

The Chiefs got incredible results from their draft on offense and defense. We got 1 guy that contributed. They got 5-6

KC has a first rate front office with a first rate coaching staff, a HoF head coach and a HoF QB and HoF TE. The Chargers have a second rate coaching staff paired with a second rate front office resulting in the saddest trophy case in the AFC West under the ownership of the tragic Greek family, Spanos.

[Steve]

KC had a great receiver that they kept in Kelce. We don't have a Kelce. We could certainly use a Kelce, and that would be a great place to add a weapon to attack the middle of the field. Herbert's best performances as a pro have been when we have been able to find ways of attacking the middle of the field, but we sadly don't have that weapon on the roster. I hope Parham turns into that guy, but sadly I have seen very little, either in terms of skill set or development that leads me to think he is that guy.

If we lose Allen, who do we have as an offensive weapon for Herbert? I think Ekeler can be a more dominant pass catcher out of the slot, but at most he is still going to be splitting time at RB, and may still be the RB1. Williams is a nice WR2, but he is injured a lot. Remember everyone bitching about Jared Cook, well Everett is not any more productive than Cook was, and is not even as good a blocker. Palmer, Carter and Guyton all could be good WR, but none of them has made that final step up to be a consistent weapon.

And the OL is just too inconsistent in pass protection. Salyer is a good, but not great pass protector. Pipkins was not that great. Feiler had his worst season as a pro. Clapp and Lindsay were both pretty good, but neither of them can really play OG. And the pass protection was a whole lot better than the run blocking, which should get a bit better next year just through better offensive design, but we don't have any TE who can run block, a blocking FB or good RBs.

Now, all of that would be fine if we had a dominant D. But we leave teams in games far too long, and don't have any consistency on O to control games. So it is hard to tell if our D is kinda barely adequate but put in bad situations or they just suck. Either way they are not performing at a high level to offset a lack of weapons.

I was not a big fan of the big FA spending spree last year. I have NEVER been a fan of big FA spending. But the salary cap was screwed up when they made those moves, so I don't think they can afford to stop now. The real problem with big FA spending is when you decide to cut your losses and start trimming the roster. Again, kick the can some, do some extensions and a couple of cuts, and things will work out. But we decided last year we weren't going after FA big this year, and I don't see how that has changed.

[jamrock]

KC had a great receiver that they kept in Kelce. We don't have a Kelce. We could certainly use a Kelce, and that would be a great place to add a weapon to attack the middle of the field. Herbert's best performances as a pro have been when we have been able to find ways of attacking the middle of the field, but we sadly don't have that weapon on the roster. I hope Parham turns into that guy, but sadly I have seen very little, either in terms of skill set or development that leads me to think he is that guy.

If we lose Allen, who do we have as an offensive weapon for Herbert? I think Ekeler can be a more dominant pass catcher out of the slot, but at most he is still going to be splitting time at RB, and may still be the RB1. Williams is a nice WR2, but he is injured a lot. Remember everyone bitching about Jared Cook, well Everett is not any more productive than Cook was, and is not even as good a blocker. Palmer, Carter and Guyton all could be good WR, but none of them has made that final step up to be a consistent weapon.

And the OL is just too inconsistent in pass protection. Salyer is a good, but not great pass protector. Pipkins was not that great. Feiler had his worst season as a pro. Clapp and Lindsay were both pretty good, but neither of them can really play OG. And the pass protection was a whole lot better than the run blocking, which should get a bit better next year just through better offensive design, but we don't have any TE who can run block, a blocking FB or good RBs.

Now, all of that would be fine if we had a dominant D. But we leave teams in games far too long, and don't have any consistency on O to control games. So it is hard to tell if our D is kinda barely adequate but put in bad situations or they just suck. Either way they are not performing at a high level to offset a lack of weapons.

I was not a big fan of the big FA spending spree last year. I have NEVER been a fan of big FA spending. But the salary cap was screwed up when they made those moves, so I don't think they can afford to stop now. The real problem with big FA spending is when you decide to cut your losses and start trimming the roster. Again, kick the can some, do some extensions and a couple of cuts, and things will work out. But we decided last year we weren't going after FA big this year, and I don't see how that has changed.

Keenan Allen is the Kelce comp when healthy. Most of his work is in the middle of the field.

[ghost]

Keenan Allen is the Kelce comp when healthy. Most of his work is in the middle of the field.

Keenan Allen has 20 catches for 336 yards and has scored 3 touchdowns in 5 games in the playoffs in his career.

Travis Kelce No. 2 in NFL history in postseason catches, postseason receiving yards and postseason touchdowns. Travis Kelce has not missed a game due to injury in nine years. Week 16 last season against the Pittsburgh Steelers he missed due to COVID-19. Travis is the 5th highest paid Chief at $14.8m so he's not a financial burden either.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/

[ghost]

This exchange between Sheriff Bledsoe and Butch & Sundance keeps running through my head today. Played by Jeff Corey. Who was also cast as Tom Cheney in True Grit, also released in 1969.

It's over, don't you get that? It's over (and you're both gonna die bloody*), and all you can do is choose where. ( softer now) I'm sorry. I'm getting mean in my old age. Shut me up, Sundance.

*That does not apply in any way.

[DerwinBosa]

Keenan Allen is the Kelce comp when healthy. Most of his work is in the middle of the field.

No he's not. Among probably many other examples that exist out there, two key losses against the Patriots (2014 regular season and 2018 Divisional Round) prove that Keenan is not close to being on Kelce's level. I've never seen Kelce get taken out of a game the way Allen was by Darelle Revis in 2014 and Stephon Gilmore in the 2018 playoffs (he had a 43-yard touchdown reception in the first quarter, but after that all he contributed was a meaningless 32-yard yard reception when the score was 41-14 in the fourth quarter).

Allen is a very good possession receiver who should be commended for the career he has had. Great? Up there with the elites of his time? No way. You can replace him and do just fine, maybe even better, with a quarterback like Herbert.

[DerwinBosa]

Who are you going to replace Keenan with on the Chargers’ roster?

I"m sure at least a few Patriots fans were asking the same question about Wes Welker, who had 122 and 118 receptions during his final two years in New England, after he departed. Yet somehow Welker remained ring-less and the Patriots moved on to win three more Super Bowls.

[DerwinBosa]

Hill was traded and is still playing at a high level. Some people here want Allen released to make cap room. There is also a big difference between the Chargers
and Chiefs. Chiefs have Reid, Mahomes and Kelce. The Chargers have Staley, Herbert and ?.

If you replace that question mark with Keenan Allen are you confident we'll win the Super Bowl next season?

[DerwinBosa]

KC had a great receiver that they kept in Kelce. We don't have a Kelce. We could certainly use a Kelce, and that would be a great place to add a weapon to attack the middle of the field. Herbert's best performances as a pro have been when we have been able to find ways of attacking the middle of the field, but we sadly don't have that weapon on the roster. I hope Parham turns into that guy, but sadly I have seen very little, either in terms of skill set or development that leads me to think he is that guy.

If we lose Allen, who do we have as an offensive weapon for Herbert? I think Ekeler can be a more dominant pass catcher out of the slot, but at most he is still going to be splitting time at RB, and may still be the RB1. Williams is a nice WR2, but he is injured a lot. Remember everyone bitching about Jared Cook, well Everett is not any more productive than Cook was, and is not even as good a blocker. Palmer, Carter and Guyton all could be good WR, but none of them has made that final step up to be a consistent weapon.

And the OL is just too inconsistent in pass protection. Salyer is a good, but not great pass protector. Pipkins was not that great. Feiler had his worst season as a pro. Clapp and Lindsay were both pretty good, but neither of them can really play OG. And the pass protection was a whole lot better than the run blocking, which should get a bit better next year just through better offensive design, but we don't have any TE who can run block, a blocking FB or good RBs.

Now, all of that would be fine if we had a dominant D. But we leave teams in games far too long, and don't have any consistency on O to control games. So it is hard to tell if our D is kinda barely adequate but put in bad situations or they just suck. Either way they are not performing at a high level to offset a lack of weapons.

I was not a big fan of the big FA spending spree last year. I have NEVER been a fan of big FA spending. But the salary cap was screwed up when they made those moves, so I don't think they can afford to stop now. The real problem with big FA spending is when you decide to cut your losses and start trimming the roster. Again, kick the can some, do some extensions and a couple of cuts, and things will work out. But we decided last year we weren't going after FA big this year, and I don't see how that has changed.

We had Hunter Henry, who's not Kelce but is certainly a very good pass-catching tight end. Telesco failed to keep him, choosing instead to spend the money on Bryan Bulaga, Chris Harris, and Linval Joseph (all in their thirties) instead.That was the mistake. Telesco doesn't need to compound it by holding onto Keenan Allen too long.

[Steve]

We had Hunter Henry, who's not Kelce but is certainly a very good pass-catching tight end. Telesco failed to keep him, choosing instead to spend the money on Bryan Bulaga, Chris Harris, and Linval Joseph (all in their thirties) instead.That was the mistake. Telesco doesn't need to compound it by holding onto Keenan Allen too long.

Henry's cap number last year and this year is $15 million. The 1st year of the deal was not a bad price ($6 mill), but he is not a $15 mill a year player. That is a bit steep for a guy who is not anywhere near as good as Kelce/Kittle/Waller/Godert/Andrews as a pass receiver and is not much better as a blocker (and not as good as he was for us). If you are suggesting that Henry is anywhere near the kind of replacement for Allen's production as a receiver, you are kidding yourself. He is a nice complimentary piece who priced himself out of LA. NE is paying (almost) top dollar for good but not great production. And we are the ones who had to endure his injury history, which NE has managed to miss.

As far as Wes Welker's replacement, NE had Edelman (105 catches in 2013, vs Welker's 118 in 2012) as a major weapon, and Danny Amendola, as well as Gronk. The big loss for NE offense that year was Aaron Hernandez, but you can hardly blame NE for cutting him lose, even at the loss of 2/3 of their catches at TE/Hback). They also had a pretty good RB by committee (Blount, Ridley and Vereen) and a much better D than we have.

We simply don't have a replacement on the roster for Allen. We have a bunch of guys who could step up, but really haven't taken the step up yet. This is not a strong WR draft, and our draft position to take an impact WR is not great. If we are going to add help it has to be at WR, but again FA is not a great place to look to add help. The top FA candidates, as usual, seem to be dominated by guys who are as old or older than Allen or guys who have very serious injury issues.

Also, if you look at the type of player, Welker was a quickness guy. Sure, he ran good routes and had good hands, but he was explosive because of his great quickness. That fades quickly with age when it starts to go, and it was starting to go with Welker. Allen is a route runner. Guys who win by their ability to run great routes are often productive later in their careers and have longer careers than say guys who are speed or quickness guys.

As far as Joseph, Harris and Bulaga, they are typical FA. Guys usually make it to the market because they are nearing the end of their careers, and a desperate team signs them. We were that team. The problem wasn't so much letting Henry go, but we simply have not had much success developing players since Marty was coaching the Chargers. We have had some success in the draft year of 1st year HC. Staley, McCoy and Lynn's best draft classes all came in the 1st year (unless you count the Herbert for Lynn), and the lack of sustained draft success has been the Chargers problem.