Welcome Brandon Mebane

[WindsorUK]

They also play a hybrid with a leo LB which is a type of 3-4.
Mebane said he can play nose or DE in our scheme which opens the door for Carethers to step up at either slot as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing the two big fellas plug the middle next year.
Will Philon and a resigned( hopefully!)Mathews, and Square for that matter, rotate with Mebane and Carrethers. Or will one of them( Philon?) move further out?
I assume Lieuget mans one outside spot; who gets the other? Bosa, Buckner? Or do you put Melvin or Attouchu down in a 3 point stance?

[Steve]

Right now I would think

Base 34
OLB Ingram/Emmanuel
DE Lissemore
NT Mebane
DE Liuget
OLB Attaochu/Emmanuel

Rush line (real starters)
DE/OLB Ingram
DT Philon
DT Liuget
DE/OLB Attaochu

The more pressing need is to find that rush DE/DT type of guy. 70% of our downs in the rush line, so the choice is obvious. Plus, you aren't going to change the game on 1st downs on a dive play up the middle.

[SDFan]

Right now I would think

Base 34
OLB Ingram/Emmanuel
DE Lissemore
NT Mebane
DE Liuget
OLB Attaochu/Emmanuel

Rush line (real starters)
DE/OLB Ingram
DT Philon
DT Liuget
DE/OLB Attaochu

The more pressing need is to find that rush DE/DT type of guy. 70% of our downs in the rush line, so the choice is obvious. Plus, you aren't going to change the game on 1st downs on a dive play up the middle.

So where does Carrethers, Square and Ricardo Mathew fit into the scheme of things?

[WindsorUK]

Right now I would think

Base 34
OLB Ingram/Emmanuel
DE Lissemore
NT Mebane
DE Liuget
OLB Attaochu/Emmanuel

Rush line (real starters)
DE/OLB Ingram
DT Philon
DT Liuget
DE/OLB Attaochu

The more pressing need is to find that rush DE/DT type of guy. 70% of our downs in the rush line, so the choice is obvious. Plus, you aren't going to change the game on 1st downs on a dive play up the middle.

Unless of course the other team is playing the Chargers
I'd be happy with this rotation.
Throw in Buckner or Bosa and that is a HUGE upgrade from last year. Hell, last 3 years!

[CTrout]

So where does Carrethers, Square and Ricardo Mathew fit into the scheme of things?

As far as I know Mathews hasn't been resigned.

[Steve]

I have been charting where we give up our big runs, and not that many come up the middle. And of the ones that do, I have yet to chart one where the NT got blown off the ball. We don't give up yards because teams push us around. We give up yards because players are lazy and sloppy with their technique. The problem I have with going out and getting all these new players every year is there is a whole new group of guys who have to figure out that they have to play the run by playing their assignments and with proper technique. And as we keep adding new guys, then we have to relearn that lesson every year.

Mathews is a FA and probably is out of the picture. He was simply awful last year. He was pretty good 2 year ago, and has the tools to be effective, but we have some younger players like Philon and Carrethers who may need the snaps to get better (both practice and games).

The compitition at DL is going to be pretty intrersting. There are plenty of snaps on any team for guys who play well, but at this Carrethers has been inconsistent and not very good. He flashes ability, so there is hope. We knew he was raw when we drafted him, so it is about time he step up.

I don't see Buckner as a huge help. He has a lot of work to do. He has been mostly a guy who sets the edge and needs a lot of work shedding blockers. He is getting all the attention and draft position because he is such a good/great athlete, not because he is ready to step in and play at a high level. Even if we draft him, how many impact 34 DE are there? JJ watt and ???????? JJ watt and a handful of guys have been sack artists, but that has mostly been because their teams are willing to scheme around them. But unless he is going to be a near Hall of fame level player, I just think you can get a guy who is 95% as effective later in the draft and use that pick to add a special athlete who makes the big plays.

Bosa is a better hope. He would not line up at DE in our D. He is an OLB who could play inside a bit on our rush line. If you think he is going to be the next Von Miller ( a comparison I keep hearing), then he is going to be a disappointment to you. Bosa is never going to be the type of player who looks like he has a rocket tied on his back and fly off the edge so fast even elite OT have trouble with his speed.

But if you want a faster, quicker version of Ryan Kerrigan (10-12 sack per year guy in Washington, despite not really having any help around him), with better physical tools (but not quite as good hustle - Bosa is still very good, just that is Kerrigan's thing), then Bosa is your guy. I especially like that unlike a lot of edge guys he doesn't freelance or take a lot of downs off. Bosa has learned a lot more of how to play on the edge this year, as teams doubled, and game planned around him on almost every play (every play I saw anyway), despite OSU having several other NFL caliber DL. I wish he had a better burst to the QB after he shedded his block, but that is really the only knock I have on the guy. Good hand use, miles ahead of most DL coming out. But his hustle and playing his assignments are two things that we desperately need, on top of his ability.

To me, Ingram, Attaochu and Emmanuel were all big disappointments when you watched them play. They can and do make plays. But they give up a lot. I am not sure, with all the plays he made, that Ingram even came out even. He almost lost the GB game by himself. I like his effort, but with as long as he has been in the NFL, is he ever going to learn to stop freelancing?

Attaochu and Emmanuel both need to work a lot harder on being run defenders too. I like their ability as edge rushers, but when you see Adrian Peterson getting outside of them, you know in the 2nd quarter we aren't going to win.

The 3 OLB were responsible for a lot of the improvement in our 3rd down D, but they struggled with the run down stuff and gave up so many plays because they were sloppy.

[Formula 21]

I'm really disappointed that there is no great OLB in this draft that we could get at 3. Unless Tunsil falls to us, I just don't see us getting the game changer type player that I'd hoped for.

[Steve]

I think everyone knows how I feel about Tunsil, but I think Stanley is the same kind of player. If you don't downgrade Tunsil for effort and not playing really hard all the time, and not being a great 2nd level guy, doesn't that mean Stanley is a top pick as well. If anything, since Stanley was a top player when he elected to go back to school last year, so he has played at a higher level for longer.

F21, you don't consider Bosa a great edge player?

[Fleet]

Ive already said i think Stanley might be a better all around OT than Tunsil. Hes the better run blocker. The things we are doing on defense makes me think we are inching closer to Bosa as a 43 under/over DE with Ingram at LB.

And with Hayward in the fold it may mean we have plans for Flowers at FS. Im not sure about that but if thats the case....and we go Bosa/Kelly 1 and 2 then a 3T in the 3rd would make sense.

1. Bosa
2. Kelly
3. Oakman

Imagine Oakman and Bosa rushing the passer on the right side of a 43 under. With Liuget at LDE(5T) and Mebane at NT. Ingram at SAM on the left side.

[Steve]

Fleet, on your depth chart, I don't see Liuget being outside and Oakman inside. I don't think there is any way that Oakman ends up playing inside, at least not until his body matures and he puts on some bulk in his lower body. He also needs to really improve his technique, because it really holds him back. Oakman got a lot of highlights making plays in college with a heavy hand blow, and his great upper body strength. But NFL players are not so easy to push around, so he just has to get a lot stronger and thicker in the lower half, while he learns to take off low and really use his hands consistently.

[Formula 21]

I think everyone knows how I feel about Tunsil, but I think Stanley is the same kind of player. If you don't downgrade Tunsil for effort and not playing really hard all the time, and not being a great 2nd level guy, doesn't that mean Stanley is a top pick as well. If anything, since Stanley was a top player when he elected to go back to school last year, so he has played at a higher level for longer.

F21, you don't consider Bosa a great edge player?

i
I'm concerned that he's small as a 5 tech and slow as an OLB. Not as a player, but as the #3 overall pick. If you compare him to Kerrigan, Kerrigan was pick 16. And I'd love Bosa in the middle of the 1st. At 3? I just don't know.

[Fleet]

Fleet, on your depth chart, I don't see Liuget being outside and Oakman inside. I don't think there is any way that Oakman ends up playing inside, at least not until his body matures and he puts on some bulk in his lower body. He also needs to really improve his technique, because it really holds him back. Oakman got a lot of highlights making plays in college with a heavy hand blow, and his great upper body strength. But NFL players are not so easy to push around, so he just has to get a lot stronger and thicker in the lower half, while he learns to take off low and really use his hands consistently.

I dont know man i actually thought he looked better shooting the B gap than outside. He lines up at 5T and gets through on the film i watched. He was a monster at the Senior Bowl. 3T in a 43 Under lets him penetrate that B gap. Sheldon Day is another guy i thought about there.