PFF Chargers preview

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Watch that first step....it's a doooooooozy!!!!!!

[Yubaking]

So what a player did last year production wise no matter his age can be counted on as to his projected performance this year. There for NO QB sould be starting that is currently starting unless they came in as a rookie and had a blockbuster year. No RB will ever get to old hell, no reason to build through the draft if your going to park your best draft picks on the bench behind 40 year old vets who had good years once upon a time.

Jammer sucked last year. SUCKED!!!

Phillips got stats but did not translate his prormance into meaningfull plays that got the defence off the field on 3rd down. Martin sucked last year. Jammer Martin and Phillips graded out the worst at there positions on the team but somehow Ingram can't be any better in your opinion? Close minded much?

Really don't you miss Norv? He felt the same way about young players and thus we didnt develope meny...

C'mon! Let me say it again. It doesn't matter if Jammer sucked. That is not the question. Is Jammer better than any other CB on our team? That is the question. And the answer is heck yeah. He is better than Patrick, who was cut by the Saints, the dead last defense in the league.

If you were right about Phillips, I would agree with you. 9.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 1 TD, 2 passes defensed, and 50 tackles. Also, the team was 5th in the NFL in YPC against and you know they weren't running at Johnson. Phillips' numbers were the best of any OLB on our team--across the board.

Of course you can do projections, but try to make them believable. Phillips doesn't just suddenly go from being our best OLB by a mile to not even being good enough to beat out guys that have no business being on an NFL roster. That kind of assertion is asinine.

[Beerman]

C'mon! Let me say it again. It doesn't matter if Jammer sucked. That is not the question. Is Jammer better than any other CB on our team? That is the question. And the answer is heck yeah. He is better than Patrick, who was cut by the Saints, the dead last defense in the league.

If you were right about Phillips, I would agree with you. 9.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 1 TD, 2 passes defensed, and 50 tackles. Also, the team was 5th in the NFL in YPC against and you know they weren't running at Johnson. Phillips' numbers were the best of any OLB on our team--across the board.

Of course you can do projections, but try to make them believable. Phillips doesn't just suddenly go from being our best OLB by a mile to not even being good enough to beat out guys that have no business being on an NFL roster. That kind of assertion is asinine.

Advanced Stats vs Run
Year Team Pos Plays Stops Dfts Yd/Play Rank Stop Rate Rank Pct Tm
2012 SD OLB 26 15 6 3.7 57 58% 71 58%
2011 SD OLB 27 19 5 3.4 -- 70% -- 70%
2010 SD OLB 35 28 9 2.7 26 80% 8 80%

You should do your homework. He was awful vs. the run. It wasn't always like that, but he's been in decline since 2010. His stoppage rate went from 80% to 58% where his rank among OLB's dropped from 8th to 71st.


Feel free to retort with his sack numbers.

[Yubaking]

On at least 3 occasions, when called on it, you have agreed that it's not all about sacks. And yet, sacks are the only evaluative metric you continue to use. Annoying.

Norv Turner didn't trust rookies. That's well established.

Right. It's not all about sacks. But when you are supposed to be a pass rush specialist and that is why you were drafted and you can't rush the passer, that matters. You can't ignore that Phillips was 21st in the NFL last year in sacks and that Ingram got all of one sack--basically no better than J.J. That is the most important stat and Phillips had a huge advantage, so even if Ingram had an advantage everywhere else, and he didn't, Phillips still performed better (and that's without considering that Ingram actually cost us a win last year).

I think Ingram will be a good player in a year or two, but he has done nothing that proves that he has arrived yet and speculating that Ingram is going to go from almost no sacks to being a good pass rusher like Phillips was last year is not reasonable without more of a showing from Ingram. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but it isn't a reasonable projection to say that it is going to happen.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Our best? A credible analital unbiased source labled him the lowest graded OLB we played last year. If you refuse to accept PFF'S credibility please present a non biased source. Im no attorney, but we are both biased. Lets start our discussion based on something familiar to you, credible sources and presidence. This way you will have tripple advantage becuase Im not an attorney im less credible becuase of that and as you can read I struggle with the written word.

[Yubaking]

Advanced Stats vs Run
Year Team Pos Plays Stops Dfts Yd/Play Rank Stop Rate Rank Pct Tm
2012 SD OLB 26 15 6 3.7 57 58% 71 58%
2011 SD OLB 27 19 5 3.4 -- 70% -- 70%
2010 SD OLB 35 28 9 2.7 26 80% 8 80%

You should do your homework. He was awful vs. the run. It wasn't always like that, but he's been in decline since 2010. His stoppage rate went from 80% to 58% where his rank among OLB's dropped from 8th to 71st.


Feel free to retort with his sack numbers.

And yet the team was somehow 5th against he run in terms of YPC. Again, I question the stats you are using. I am not suggesting that Phillips made every tackle, but just because Phillips didn't make the tackle doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the play and the play was very good.

And yes, the OLB's sack numbers are the most important stat. It's why players like Von Miller and Aldon Smith are so coveted.

As I have noted, Phillips had more tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, fumbles recovered and passes defenses than any other OLB on the team last year. How that doesn't make him the best OLB on the team last year is a mystery to me.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Right. It's not all about sacks. But when you are supposed to be a pass rush specialist and that is why you were drafted and you can't rush the passer, that matters. You can't ignore that Phillips was 21st in the NFL last year in sacks and that Ingram got all of one sack--basically no better than J.J. That is the most important stat and Phillips had a huge advantage, so even if Ingram had an advantage everywhere else, and he didn't, Phillips still performed better (and that's without considering that Ingram actually cost us a win last year).

I think Ingram will be a good player in a year or two, but he has done nothing that proves that he has arrived yet and speculating that Ingram is going to go from almost no sacks to being a good pass rusher like Phillips was last year is not reasonable without more of a showing from Ingram. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but it isn't a reasonable projection to say that it is going to happen.

Freeney on a high ankle sprain was still in Arians opinion better than anything elce they could trought out there and were Phillips still on the team my money says they still would have signed Freeney and that Freeney out of position and all would have one the starting job.

Have even seen Phillips play this preseason?

[Viejo Bolt]

Can somebody tell me what Jerry Rice's 40-yard dash time was coming out of college? I forgot. Anybody who has been out at practice and watched Keenan Allen play knows he is not "football" slow.

The best thing to come out of this otherwise mostly worthless thread is BKR's hanging of the moniker "Old Marines" on some individuals here. Still LOLing at that one! :lmao:

[SFW]

And yet the team was somehow 5th against he run in terms of YPC. Again, I question the stats you are using. I am not suggesting that Phillips made every tackle, but just because Phillips didn't make the tackle doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the play and the play was very good.

And yes, the OLB's sack numbers are the most important stat. It's why players like Von Miller and Aldon Smith are so coveted.

As I have noted, Phillips had more tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, fumbles recovered and passes defenses than any other OLB on the team last year. How that doesn't make him the best OLB on the team last year is a mystery to me.

Yubaking, have you ever given consideration that maybe the defensive coaches told TT they didn't want Philips back? I would hope that the GM asks opinions on players from the coaching staff. Yes, ultimately the GM has the final say but I doubt he makes decisions on players (especially Chargers players) without referring to the coaches. If it wasn't for the opinions of coaches, the Chargers would have probably never found Whittaker.

I am not saying Pagano didn't want Jammer or Phillips back (they would never say if true) but it definitely could have been part of the decision to not bring them back (especially when as you say they were better and cheaper than other players they did sign or retain). Not everything is black and white or cut and dry. Don't oversimplify the transactions that need to be made just based on stats without knowing the many things that go on behind the scenes.

[Beerman]

And yet the team was somehow 5th against he run in terms of YPC. Again, I question the stats you are using. I am not suggesting that Phillips made every tackle, but just because Phillips didn't make the tackle doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the play and the play was very good.

And yes, the OLB's sack numbers are the most important stat. It's why players like Von Miller and Aldon Smith are so coveted.

As I have noted, Phillips had more tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, fumbles recovered and passes defenses than any other OLB on the team last year. How that doesn't make him the best OLB on the team last year is a mystery to me.

:cmon:

[Yubaking]

Our best? A credible analital unbiased source labled him the lowest graded OLB we played last year. If you refuse to accept PFF'S credibility please present a non biased source. Im no attorney, but we are both biased. Lets start our discussion based on something familiar to you, credible sources and presidence. This way you will have tripple advantage becuase Im not an attorney im less credible becuase of that and as you can read I struggle with the written word.

I have been quoting the actual raw stats. They don't need modification. Pagano thought Phillips was better than every OLB on our team except arguably J.J. last year. We know that because J.J. and Phillips were the starters. Players not good enough to start are generally not as good as the starters. That's why starters start.

That's why the argument that Patrick is as good or better than Jammer is so absurd. Patrick couldn't even get significant playing time on the worst defense in the NFL and he was cut by that team. He is a borderline NFL player at best, lucky to make any roster on his best day. Jammer's whole career has been as a starter. The two are not comparable. A Jammer in decline is still better than a never going to be good Patrick.

I can make the same argument with Phillips versus Keiser or V. Martin versus Wynn. The veterans we lost may not have been great starters, but they were starting caliber players. Guys like Keiser and Wynn are lucky to make any roster on their very best day. The comparison is ridiculous. The guys we lost are so much better and would have been better subs at worst than the scrubs we signed.

And as for the Telesco knows something I don't crap, do you think Telesco knows something that the teams that cut these players and didn't want them even at a dirt cheap price don't know?

Just like with Telesco's draft strategy in which he disagreed with other teams (like on how Arizona valued the ILBs in this year's draft--which we know because Arizona also took an ILB at #45 and could have taken Te'o at #38 if they thought he was worth it), we know that one team is right and another is wrong. My belief is that it is Telesco that is wrong with respect to both the roster moves and the draft. And before you dismiss my view, please realize that my view is in accord with the beliefs of other NFL GMs.

[Beerman]

And no your boy Von Miller is ranked highly because he's good at everything and is a complete OLB.

Advanced Stats vs Run
Year Team Pos Plays Stops Dfts Yd/Play Rank Stop Rate Rank Pct Tm
2012 DEN OLB 38 33 16 0.4 1 87% 3 87%
2011 DEN OLB 36 27 8 3.2 38 75% 11 75%