PFF Chargers preview

[SFW]

I think I am learning pretty quickly here......

Rule A) If Telesco drafted, signed or did not sign a player it was the wrong decision.

Rule B) If any other GM drafted, signed or did not sign a player it was the right decision (especially if they sign a former Chargers starter).

Rule C) If a player started in 2012, he is better than every player in NFL that didn't start.

Rule D) Stats are only relevant or accurate if they reflect the opinion of the poster reading them.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Edited your reply so you can see what you do, since your self awareness is...0.

Right. It's not all about sacks. ... You can't ignore that Phillips was 21st in the NFL last year in sacks and that Ingram got all of one sack--basically no better than J.J. That is the most important stat and Phillips had a huge advantage, so even if Ingram had an advantage everywhere else, and he didn't, Phillips still performed better (and that's without considering that Ingram actually cost us a win last year).

I think Ingram will be a good player in a year or two... speculating that Ingram is going to go from almost no sacks to being a good pass rusher like Phillips was last year

Sacks. Sacks. More sacks.

While sacks are important, pressure is more important. If you watched the games you would know that Ingram consistently generated pressure and absorbed double teams. That matters and shouldn't be ignored. Young players have a tendency to get back there and not be able to finish the deal. English did that consistently his rookie year. Tom Telesco kept Ingram and didn't keep Phillips for a reason. You should investigate why. And either way, you need to get over it. Phillips is gone.

Keep running yang, but you're still just reciting variations on sack numbers.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

but just because Phillips didn't make the tackle doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the play and the play was very good.

Couldn't the same also be said of sacks????

And yes, the OLB's sack numbers are the most important stat. It's why players like Von Miller and Aldon Smith are so coveted.

I promise you that if either of those players basically played the same style but without the sack totals, they would still be highly coveted. It's about pressure.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Just like with Telesco's draft strategy in which he disagreed with other teams (like on how Arizona valued the ILBs in this year's draft--which we know because Arizona also took an ILB at #45 and could have taken Te'o at #38 if they thought he was worth it), we know that one team is right and another is wrong. My belief is that it is Telesco that is wrong with respect to both the roster moves and the draft. And before you dismiss my view, please realize that my view is in accord with the beliefs of other NFL GMs.

LMAO.

So to summarize, if any GM did not agree with Telesco's assessment of a player then....Telesco is the one who is wrong. Now we're getting somewhere...

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Spin it any way you want. Telesco got rid of our veterans from last year and replaced them with lesser players that other teams did not want. Either Telesco is wrong or the other GMs are wrong. My belief is that the other GMs are right. It seems very obvious.

To say that this is naive and simplistic is to be too kind.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I think I am learning pretty quickly here......

Rule A) If Telesco drafted, signed or did not sign a player it was the wrong decision.

Rule B) If any other GM drafted, signed or did not sign a player it was the right decision (especially if they sign a former Chargers starter).

Rule C) If a player started in 2012, he is better than every player in NFL that didn't start.

Rule D) Stats are only relevant or accurate if they reflect the opinion of the poster reading them.

Yes. That's it.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Rule E) NO POFFTERS!

[RobH]

Some of your views are beyond defensible.

No, Allen is not slow. Out of the WRs that have a reasonable expectation of making the team (Floyd, Brown, Meachem, Goodman, Allen and Royal), Allen is faster than everyone except Floyd, Brown, Meachem, Goodman and Royal. He is also slower than Ladarius Green (a friggin' tight end). Yeah, 4.71 and 4.75.He's a real burner. He ran almost as fast as Manti Te'o did at is pro day, but no, Allen is not slow.

The numbers you are quoting are numbers that were made at the combine, and Allen was still only about 75-80% recovered from the knee surgery he had undergone in terms of explosion. This isn't Allen's estimate of his condition, but the trainers.

Where Keenan Allen lands in the draft will boil down to how teams view what he brings to the table -- and what he doesn't.

2013 NFL Draft: Position rankings
With the draft right around the corner, NFL.com ranks the top prospects available at every position on offense and defense. More ...
The Cal wide receiver was clocked by NFL Network's Mike Mayock at 4.71 and 4.75 seconds in the 40-yard dash at Allen's pro day Tuesday, confirming that blazing speed is not a quality he offers.

He's been hampered by a posterior cruciate ligament injury throughout the draft process, but doctors now describe Allen's left knee as fully healthy after he re-injured it in January. Trainers told Mayock that Allen only has 75 percent to 80 percent of his explosion, but said "that's what comes last" in the healing process. Allen recently told The Sacramento Bee that he's only about 85 percent back.

[sandiego17]

Some of your views are beyond defensible.

While Ingram was playing in mostly passing situations, he managed just one sack. Phillips managed 9.5 sacks. Getting to the QB is the primary objective of the OLB and it is why both Phillips and Ingram were on the team. I suppose if one couldn't figure out that Phillips was better because he was the starter, the fact that he planted the QB nearly ten times as much might be suggestive as to which player was better last year.

Regarding the defense, the historically poor 3rd down performance was in 2011, which was the worst since the 1995 Browns. Your short field argument is nonsense as well. If you look at the stats on a per snap basis, you will see that the 2012 Chargers defense actually improves from 6th to 5th when moving from total rushing yards allowed to yards per snap. The same is true versus the pass as well in that the defense moves from 18th in total passing yards allowed to #12 in passing yards per attempt. So, it was not that the end zone was stopping the other team to the degree that you are suggesting.

Of course our coaches can game plan to counter heavy numbers in the box. The problem is that our players may not be well equipped to execute the adjustments that are made, which would likely take the form of longer, slower developing pass plays, on which our skill players may struggle to gain separation and our OL may struggle to block.

No, Allen is not slow. Out of the WRs that have a reasonable expectation of making the team (Floyd, Brown, Meachem, Goodman, Allen and Royal), Allen is faster than everyone except Floyd, Brown, Meachem, Goodman and Royal. He is also slower than Ladarius Green (a friggin' tight end). Yeah, 4.71 and 4.75.He's a real burner. He ran almost as fast as Manti Te'o did at is pro day, but no, Allen is not slow.

I am not criticizing the pick of Te'o. We needed an ILB and Te'o was the right value at #45. What I am questioning is Telesco wasting a draft pick when 4 players of comparable value at the same position were all still on the board when we were just 7 picks away as were Menelik Watson and Jonathan Banks. Also, since you seem to be critical of Franklin despite his not getting any touches behind one of the league's worst OLs and reserve OLs, we could have taken Shamarko Thomas in the 4th round and our SS problem would likely be over. Barrett Jones was on the board as well. The point is that good players were available in rounds two and four and we didn't need panic to get Te'o, especially since Telesco gutted the roster before the draft.

I agree in regards to your views. Beyond defensible is being kind. Aren't you the one that argued the chargers were 4 plays from winning the division or something just as ridiculous. Crazy talk, but par for the course. If not, apologize in advance. That's one of the funniest and most ridiculous opinions I've read here in regards to last season.

Sacks! Sacks!!!!! Joe Mauer is a better hitter than Chris Davis!!!!

The defense wasn't the 9th best d in the league last year, they ranked ninth in yards allowed. Big difference. All other metrics must bow down to the almighty yards allowed. I'm convinced, the d was phenomenal last year, top 10!!

Our coaches can counter heavy numbers? If they know whats coming, that gives them a better chance to beat it? Belicheatian! So you admit the line is imoroved, but because Telesco didn't turn one of the worst lines in Charger history into a road grading pass blocking juggernaut in part of one offseason, he has already failed. No reason to see if his vision will or won't work beyond less than one offseason, the guy is already a bum. What was AJ's first season record, which was in his own words, a push year?

Allen ran a 4.7 coming off knee surgery? Cut him. The guy is slow, he's no Johnathan Franklin. No Allen is not slow and definitely doesn't play slow. Running .2 faster in a straight line is what matters, I mean meachem can do that and the guy has been quality. I'll wait and see in regards to Allen. Receivers generally take some time to develop, he definitely appears ahead of the curve.

Panic. Gutted the roster because he dint bring back guys I wanted. Telesco = Idiot, preseason already proves me right, agenda agenda. About right?

[Guy Lombardo]

We are going to go through some growing pains but when you look at the roster, there is actually a decent number of young promising players, they just need experience. They will get it this year and whatever holes are left after Steve Williams and Ingram come back, should be pretty easy to address next offseason. We just have to prepare ourselves for the growing pains.

Offense isn't as promising if only for the fact that we have a totally rebuilt line, but outside of Fluker a case could be made to replace the rest.

When you get beyond the offensive line though, each group is maybe one player away from being pretty darn good. I think we need another dynamic talent at WR to replace what we lost in DX and we could probably use a new (quality) RB and FB next year. The TE's look pretty darn good. And Sorenson give us a nice backup prospect at QB.

So I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people think talent wise after having some time to look at the roster and our players. Unfortunately, the Oline despite its improvement is going to hurt us. At least they should get better as the year goes on as the gel, that is not an unreasonable hope.

[Beerman]

We are going to go through some growing pains but when you look at the roster, there is actually a decent number of young promising players, they just need experience. They will get it this year and whatever holes are left after Steve Williams and Ingram come back, should be pretty easy to address next offseason. We just have to prepare ourselves for the growing pains.

Offense isn't as promising if only for the fact that we have a totally rebuilt line, but outside of Fluker a case could be made to replace the rest.

When you get beyond the offensive line though, each group is maybe one player away from being pretty darn good. I think we need another dynamic talent at WR to replace what we lost in DX and we could probably use a new (quality) RB and FB next year. The TE's look pretty darn good. And Sorenson give us a nice backup prospect at QB.

So I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people think talent wise after having some time to look at the roster and our players. Unfortunately, the Oline despite its improvement is going to hurt us. At least they should get better as the year goes on as the gel, that is not an unreasonable hope.

I agree wholeheartedly. I like the youth they have gone for. We have a few players that will start this year that are completely unproven, but not without talent. We should have a much better idea about where we need to make additions to this roster after the year. It's clear we are much closer defensively than we are offensively.

My guess would be we go after a LT, an athletic LG (we need one capable of pulling since we are asking Fluker to down block so much), a CB, and an OLB (assuming we don't resign English and we need another one to groom behind Freeney/JJ). Clary and Hardwick likely remain on the team one more year.

Depth however will require a few years to really address.

[Panama]

Can I get a refund for the time I've wasted reading this thread?

Yubaking, your brilliant analysis doesn't seem to factor in the effect of injuries or the importance of playing in a complementary system. This, I would think, rather diminishes the brilliance of your analysis.

Now, can we all get back to something more interesting than this rather kindergartenish I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I thread?