2024 Chargers Roster Build Discussion - Transactions | News

[Bolt4Knob]

Frivolous is really all we do here. I get you, and I’m just tugging to drill deeper and perhaps challenge to explain deeper, i mean no harm. 12-5 or better would be a huge one-year change and that is rarely seen, i don’t deny that. I don’t really believe 5-12 was our team, that was our Staley. Thats how i get higher faster.

- BS coaching - speaks for itself: +5 wins with JH, just by flipping 5 of the 7 3-pt losses
- TT roster selection - he didn’t fit players to scheme, he never built depth. JH has done some of both of these: +2. I do think Joe needs more time, but I also think Jim will get more out of what he’s got than some are ready to expect.

If I look at team groups, I see much to expect more:

OL - big upgrade - both talent and coaching/scheme - that group was completely disconnected all year.
TE - big blocking upgrade, pass will depend on health - could be double plus
WR - I actually think our group is quicker and more diverse than we have had in a long time - net plus. I count MW as a non-loss as he didn’t play last year and I truthfully believe Ladd will fully replace Slayer and add a plus - he’s gonna be special. Add in OL will block long enough for routes to develop.
RB - big upgrade. Two RBs better than any on last year’s roster and with OL this group will be a double-plus
LB - big upgrade. Proven inside thumper, great draft pick that knows how to play this system. Henley should be ready in Yr2.
DE - big upgrade with the second quality depth piece
IDL - kind of a wash - last years IDL was not good, I don’t expect a drop off but not a lot different.
ST - same as last year
CB - big question. Last year’s group was bad, but Fulton has to play well for this to improve. Net neutral.

I see improvement (with Jim coaching) almost everywhere I look. Joe needs a lot more credit than he’s gotten so far for roster moves he has made, its gonna be noticeable when they finally hit the field.

I got a net +7 as a reasonable 2024 target because I think last year’s team was really a 9-8 or 10-7 team that woefully underperformed and its really a +2 or +3. there could be upside but also could be downside. 10 to 14 Ws is my band, 12 is my call. I got you down for 9, we are really not that far off - a couple bounces here n there could be that difference.

First problem is I see in your argument - -you say the above - they were not a 9 or 10 win team. I don't give a fuck what you think they were. I am going by what they actually were. They were 5-12 who picked 5th in the draft. Thats the REALITY. We can all do the what if game - and thats fine. Here is the thing, if JH2 thought this was a ten win team, they might have treated the offseason differently. Where in fact, I think they saw this is a 5 win team with the worst running game (if you exclude the Miami game) in the NFL in years; a subpar OL; zero team speed; and a terrible defense.

And here is the key - what you and I think - you are right, its just fodder. But I WANT and hope that Harbaugh and Hortiz saw this as a 5 win team. As the problem in 2023 is Telesco and Staley over valued the roster and kept it status quo. The roster that lost a 27 zip lead in the play-offs. That was not the team to be so status quo

We have them both winning 4 more games. Except I am living in a world of starting at 5 wins and you are starting at 9 or 10 wins. Parcells says you are what your record says you are. The Chargers won five games last year.

That said - I will repeat what I have stated:
Harbaugh and Hortiz were 100% the right hires.
All off-season they have had a vision and have executed it, on paper from what I see - very well
Except for Bosa in and Allen out - I think the moves they have made have been on point. Maybe not the players, but the positions, the philosophy, level setting the cap. I just truly thought if one of Bosa or Allen were going, it would be Bosa.
I am bullish on the team and future . The best vision for the roster since Butler and Marty

[blueman]

First problem is I see in your argument - -you say the above - they were not a 9 or 10 win team. I don't give a fuck what you think they were. I am going by what they actually were. They were 5-12 who picked 5th in the draft. Thats the REALITY. We can all do the what if game - and thats fine. Here is the thing, if JH2 thought this was a ten win team, they might have treated the offseason differently. Where in fact, I think they saw this is a 5 win team with the worst running game (if you exclude the Miami game) in the NFL in years; a subpar OL; zero team speed; and a terrible defense.

And here is the key - what you and I think - you are right, its just fodder. But I WANT and hope that Harbaugh and Hortiz saw this as a 5 win team. As the problem in 2023 is Telesco and Staley over valued the roster and kept it status quo. The roster that lost a 27 zip lead in the play-offs. That was not the team to be so status quo

We have them both winning 4 more games. Except I am living in a world of starting at 5 wins and you are starting at 9 or 10 wins.

So he didn’t do what you wanted him to do? Darn these NFL GMs not listening to us fanboys/girls! Zero wins for Jim.
😡

[dmac_bolt]

Use the "up the ladder" approach...we're going to have a slew of 7th rounders, so offer some team two or three of them for one 5th rounder...package a 5th and a 4th for a 3rd rounder, and voila! We're in day 2!

[Fouts2herbert]

So June 1st is quickly approaching, and the offseason roster is still not complete as there is no doubt that Corey Linsley will make his retirement official after June 1st, that move will save the Chargers 1.2 mil of cap space and create an opening on the 90 man offseason roster...I'm just wondering if they will go after another veteran player on O-line or maybe just sign another rookie UDFA camp body...Who's still out there that folks want to see brought in?

[Fouts2herbert]

BTW - I hope Joe can use that large bag full of Day 3 picks to move up and get at least one more Day 2 pick next year. Quality over Quantity will be more and more important as this team builds and builds.

Not if Raven's history is any indication of how they value picks, the Ravens like using a lot of picks even when their roster is loaded...Hortiz said he values every pick and he actually meant that shit, when they traded up for Ladd he didn't lose any picks in the process he just moved down from top 3rd of the fourth round to top 3 of the fifth round...we are probably losing just as many if not more players in FA next offseason than we lost this offseason...as of right now they have either 11 or 12 picks in the 2025 draft with five total in the 6th round and it won't surprise me to see them use one to move up in the 4rth or 5th round but they will probably end up using all of them as they will have a lot of TT guys still left over that they want to replace with their own depth pieces...

[Bolt4Knob]

So he didn’t do what you wanted him to do? Darn these NFL GMs not listening to us fanboys/girls! Zero wins for Jim.
😡

I wrote something with a lot of F words that I deleted as I was just venting. But I will say this. I have no clue how you could parse that one line and say "He didn't do what I wanted him to do all offseason" when down below I state I think JH2 have had a very good offseason.

[Topcat]

Ah yes, the Supremes...let's hope Harbo coaches the Bolts up to have ahem, a Supreme Super Bowl season!

[powderblueboy]

First problem is I see in your argument - -you say the above - they were not a 9 or 10 win team. I don't give a fuck what you think they were. I am going by what they actually were. They were 5-12 who picked 5th in the draft. Thats the REALITY. We can all do the what if game - and thats fine. Here is the thing, if JH2 thought this was a ten win team, they might have treated the offseason differently. Where in fact, I think they saw this is a 5 win team with the worst running game (if you exclude the Miami game) in the NFL in years; a subpar OL; zero team speed; and a terrible defense.

And here is the key - what you and I think - you are right, its just fodder. But I WANT and hope that Harbaugh and Hortiz saw this as a 5 win team. As the problem in 2023 is Telesco and Staley over valued the roster and kept it status quo. The roster that lost a 27 zip lead in the play-offs. That was not the team to be so status quo

We have them both winning 4 more games. Except I am living in a world of starting at 5 wins and you are starting at 9 or 10 wins. Parcells says you are what your record says you are. The Chargers won five games last year.

That said - I will repeat what I have stated:
Harbaugh and Hortiz were 100% the right hires.
All off-season they have had a vision and have executed it, on paper from what I see - very well
Except for Bosa in and Allen out - I think the moves they have made have been on point. Maybe not the players, but the positions, the philosophy, level setting the cap. I just truly thought if one of Bosa or Allen were going, it would be Bosa.
I am bullish on the team and future . The best vision for the roster since Butler and Marty

I predicted 10 - 7 last year, which i thought was a fair assessment once taking off the homer glasses.

I don't think I overvalued the roster.
I saw a team crippled by a bad defensive coordinator and a clueless head coach all rolled into one, who too often lacked common sense and basic leadership qualities.
He then proceeded to totally lose the team through his incompetence, with Herberts injuries (he had the finger issue before leaving for IR) aggravating the situation.

That's how they ended up winning only 5 games.

When you replace one of the bottom feeding head coaches with one of the better ones, and then add on the fact that they are going from a 2nd place to last place schedule, and that they were selecting at the top of each round, timid improvement is not the order of the day.

Look at Harbaugh's last venture in San Francisco replacing Mike singletary (5 - 10 vs 13 - 3);
look at the replacement of Tommy Prothro with Don Coryell (1-3 vs 8 - 4), Dan Henning with Bobby Ross (4 - 12 vs 11 - 5), Mike Reilly with Marty Schottenheimer (5 - 11 vs. 8 - 8)

All bad/ ineffective head coaches replaced by very good head coaches.
The only example that supports your caution is the Marty Schotteheimer replacement; but even then, the Chargers were 8 - 4 before losing Brees' favorite target, Curtis Conway,
and JaWall when one of Shanarat's goons took him out.... they were helpless against the run after that.

And I would add even more: Reilly had a certain degree of competence to him, he was a previously successful head coach at a high level program
As for the others, Henning proved he couldn't win anywhere, Tommy Prothro was running over players with his golf cart at practice,
and Mike Singletary got the job by being a super confident guy, whose coaching immaturity and general weirdness ended up turning everyone off.

Who do you think Staley is most similar to?

In any case, each one of the new head coaches brought in key vets to steady the ship .... I think Harbaugh has probably done that.

I think your 8 win prediction, with Herbert playing the entire year, only comes about with massive injuries, which can happen to any team.

So Bolt4Knob, I am expecting a full apology to all the august members of this forum for your overly cautious prediction that insults our intelligence

[Boltjolt]

First problem is I see in your argument - -you say the above - they were not a 9 or 10 win team. I don't give a fuck what you think they were. I am going by what they actually were. They were 5-12 who picked 5th in the draft. Thats the REALITY. We can all do the what if game - and thats fine. Here is the thing, if JH2 thought this was a ten win team, they might have treated the offseason differently. Where in fact, I think they saw this is a 5 win team with the worst running game (if you exclude the Miami game) in the NFL in years; a subpar OL; zero team speed; and a terrible defense.

And here is the key - what you and I think - you are right, its just fodder. But I WANT and hope that Harbaugh and Hortiz saw this as a 5 win team. As the problem in 2023 is Telesco and Staley over valued the roster and kept it status quo. The roster that lost a 27 zip lead in the play-offs. That was not the team to be so status quo

We have them both winning 4 more games. Except I am living in a world of starting at 5 wins and you are starting at 9 or 10 wins. Parcells says you are what your record says you are. The Chargers won five games last year.

That said - I will repeat what I have stated:
Harbaugh and Hortiz were 100% the right hires.
All off-season they have had a vision and have executed it, on paper from what I see - very well
Except for Bosa in and Allen out - I think the moves they have made have been on point. Maybe not the players, but the positions, the philosophy, level setting the cap. I just truly thought if one of Bosa or Allen were going, it would be Bosa.
I am bullish on the team and future . The best vision for the roster since Butler and Marty

If Harbaugh were the HC last season and Minter was the DC, do you think we finish 5-12?

I do not! Our coaching was dismal and i believe Herbert doesn't get hurt as the OL wouldnt have sucked so bad. Coaching matters and Staley was just awful calling the defense.

[dmac_bolt]

If Harbaugh were the HC last season and Minter was the DC, do you think we finish 5-12?

I do not! Our coaching was dismal and i believe Herbert doesn't get hurt as the OL wouldnt have sucked so bad. Coaching matters and Staley was just awful calling the defense.

Many of us agree they should not have been a 5-12 team. Were they really 8-9, 9-8, 10-7? We don’t know, nobody can. But we KNOW with a visceral certainty they were not a 5-12 team. They had a 5-12 coaching staff. No reason others have to agree with us, I guess.

[Velo]

The Staley Chargers won 10 games in 2022 with injuries to some key players. I'll be shocked if the Harbaugh Chargers don't at least equal that if Herbert plays the entire season.

[dmac_bolt]

The Staley Chargers won 10 games in 2022 with injuries to some key players. I'll be shocked if the Harbaugh Chargers don't at least equal that if Herbert plays the entire season.

Yep. My window is 10-14, hence I spit it and picked 12. Playoffs in his first year.