Greg Roman OC Discussion, Part 2

[Boltnut]

^ Cogent, objective and informative post right there ^

Thank you Boltnut

The Eagles are going through the same thing right now.
They lost Kelcie to retirement... and now Lane Johnson to injury.
They have all kinds of playmakers (Barkley, TE, 2 WR's)... but without OL cohesion, they are floundering.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

sorry to interrupt your haterade, but Roman beat Fangio last night. Im still celebrating

carry on hating

Sorry to rain on your fanboyism. But what the guy said starting at 16:00 in the video that BigBad posted is valid. He said what many of us have been saying here.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

With Herbert getting killed and passing for a 100 yards a game average the last 3 games anyways...how about a few more plays with Penning in as the 6th o lineman and pound Hampton at defenses?

Something has to change from 7 step drops for Herbert behind the worst inside protection imaginable. He is not going to last the season no matter how tough and game he is.

Roman cant just throw his hands up in the air because of o line challenges while his QB is laying it on the line for this team. Lets be honest, Greg Roman has never been confused for being a very imaginative or creative play caller outside a few of his run concepts ( that require good run blocking which the Chargers dont have)

When you're watching Roman's horrible play calling on offense.

[dmac_bolt]

Actually, that's exactly what poor line talent does. I'm sure Roman didn't teach Bozeman to ignore the guy right in front of him... LOL!
Hey Kimani... don't forget to get poor leverage on that blitz pick-up... LOL!

What does Gro and Devlin do about it after Bozeman does it in a dozen games straight in one season? How many times can one player make the same mistake before the coaches own it? infinite? I don’t believe that, bosses are responsible for continuous employee mistakes at some point.

its hard for me to blame Kimani when Bozeman gives Dean an untouched running start at him right at the snap. Hampton got trucked the same too. Dean is a first round elite LB, you need a lineman to at least hit him and slow him down.

i like some heavy run packages sometimes but the ‘OL needs to have a minimal level of professional competence and play calling that we did not see that MNF.

[DerwinBosa]

OL's are great when they function all together. That doesn't happen when you have a new starting 5 every game. And it certainly doesn't happen with #4 and #5 OT's subbing in for Pro Bowlers... guards moving to tackle... guys off the street... other team's rejects... I know, you guys think that injuries are just an excuse. If that were the case, then anybody could replace anybody. Take your 6th round O-lineman and just coach him up... Five or six games ago, I saw a graphic showing that the Chargers had gone through 23 different iterations along the OL. I can't imagine what it's at now...

We currently have 1 player along the OL that some of us are CONSIDERING... maybe re-signing for next year.
Nobody watches the fatties... I get it... it's boring. It takes film study... it takes knowledge. It probably helps if you've played along the OL or studied a playbook. There are mountains and mountains of material. Let's just say, it takes more than a couple weeks to absorb. I'm sure Devlin and Roman have dumbed it down quite a bit for the newbies...

You guys wanted to see a screen pass... We saw one last night. Obviously, the timing isn't there yet. I can tell you from experience, it's one of the hardest plays to run for an OL. If I were calling plays, I wouldn't attempt it with the crew we have right now. It was a wasted play, IMO. It's one of the quickest ways to give up a pick-6. It wouldn't suggest running it against the Chiefs, Texans, or Broncos.

You guys wanted short routes and slants. That's fine when a team is in zone coverage and there's space. But don't try it against tight, bump-and-run man coverage like we saw with the Eagles last night. They have two of the best cover corners in the league. Very physical players that will throw you off your routes... and once that happens... incompletions and interceptions.

You want your TE's to pass block. All you've done is take a guy out of the pattern. And the opposing defense has shifted their pass rush to the inside away from the TE (who they can easily cover because there are fewer WR's for the LB's and safeties to worry about).

You want Matlock on the field... only to find that you are telegraphing a run play.

Suggestion after suggestion from arm-chair quarterbacks... to guys that eat, sleep, and poop football for a majority of their lives. They've forgotten more football than we'll ever learn.

Having said all of that... I am neither Pro-Roman nor Anti-Roman...
I simply can't judge a pro coach who has been given a lack of playmakers (last year) or a legitimate OL (this year).
The fact that we're 20-10 the last 2 years (with this mess) actually has me leaning Pro-Roman...

Very well said. Of course I want to make the playoffs, and see what happens from there, but to be 9-4 with all of the injuries we've had along the offensive line and to our top two running backs is quite an accomplishment.

[Bolt4Knob]

OL's are great when they function all together. That doesn't happen when you have a new starting 5 every game. And it certainly doesn't happen with #4 and #5 OT's subbing in for Pro Bowlers... guards moving to tackle... guys off the street... other team's rejects... I know, you guys think that injuries are just an excuse. If that were the case, then anybody could replace anybody. Take your 6th round O-lineman and just coach him up... Five or six games ago, I saw a graphic showing that the Chargers had gone through 23 different iterations along the OL. I can't imagine what it's at now...

We currently have 1 player along the OL that some of us are CONSIDERING... maybe re-signing for next year.
Nobody watches the fatties... I get it... it's boring. It takes film study... it takes knowledge. It probably helps if you've played along the OL or studied a playbook. There are mountains and mountains of material. Let's just say, it takes more than a couple weeks to absorb. I'm sure Devlin and Roman have dumbed it down quite a bit for the newbies...

You guys wanted to see a screen pass... We saw one last night. Obviously, the timing isn't there yet. I can tell you from experience, it's one of the hardest plays to run for an OL. If I were calling plays, I wouldn't attempt it with the crew we have right now. It was a wasted play, IMO. It's one of the quickest ways to give up a pick-6. It wouldn't suggest running it against the Chiefs, Texans, or Broncos.

You guys wanted short routes and slants. That's fine when a team is in zone coverage and there's space. But don't try it against tight, bump-and-run man coverage like we saw with the Eagles last night. They have two of the best cover corners in the league. Very physical players that will throw you off your routes... and once that happens... incompletions and interceptions.

You want your TE's to pass block. All you've done is take a guy out of the pattern. And the opposing defense has shifted their pass rush to the inside away from the TE (who they can easily cover because there are fewer WR's for the LB's and safeties to worry about).

You want Matlock on the field... only to find that you are telegraphing a run play.

Suggestion after suggestion from arm-chair quarterbacks... to guys that eat, sleep, and poop football for a majority of their lives. They've forgotten more football than we'll ever learn.

Having said all of that... I am neither Pro-Roman nor Anti-Roman...
I simply can't judge a pro coach who has been given a lack of playmakers (last year) or a legitimate OL (this year).
The fact that we're 20-10 the last 2 years (with this mess) actually has me leaning Pro-Roman...

I can make a decision - he is not good. And I get about lack of playmakers last year and a legit OL this year. But he is doing NOTHING consistently to help Herbert. He is not adapting to the reality of his team. I go back to two plays on Monday. And this is in the context of the score, the opponent, the OLine for the Chargers and the Eagles defense

1) Donte had just picked off Hurts, Chargers have it 1st and ten at the 31, five minutes or so before halftime up 10-3 and knowing they were getting the ball at the half. First play, Herbert goes back to pass, is sacked, fumbled, Eagles get a FG to make it 10-6. It might be boring but running on first down, keeping in field position, not putting your QB at risk - HAS to be the play. KNOW the fucking opponent. The Eagles offense is not good. A ten point lead if you run enough clock and getting the ball - against that Eagles team, would have been huge.

2) In overtime, at their own 41, Penning is added as a 6th OL and Matlock goes in motion, Hampton runs for 15. to get across midfield. I would have hammered that play over and over again, maybe use Vidal, maybe run to the left - but the concept itself - at least on first down. The Bills beat the Steelers a week ago and basically they ran the same play with Cook over and over again. Roman ran a good play and he quit on it - for ZERO reason.

As was said on Get Up -- by Riddick and SAturday - its not about style its about the W.

Max protect Herbert
if that is two TEs or Diss and Matlock or OG and Diss - whatever
give him a chance


I saw two stats today.

QBs pressured 20+ times
Herbert is 2-2
rest of the league, 3-25

QBs with 5 + sacks against
Herbert is 4-0
Rest of the league is 9-38

I just think if you can give him a bit more time - look what he can do,. Herbert needs more "easy" buttons

Fire Roman
Fire Devlin

Get a better OL coach
Get a younger, more creative OC.

[Boltnut]

What does Gro and Devlin do about it after Bozeman does it in a dozen games straight in one season? How many times can one player make the same mistake before the coaches own it? infinite? I don’t believe that, bosses are responsible for continuous employee mistakes at some point.

its hard for me to blame Kimani when Bozeman gives Dean an untouched running start at him right at the snap. Hampton got trucked the same too. Dean is a first round elite LB, you need a lineman to at least hit him and slow him down.

i like some heavy run packages sometimes but the ‘OL needs to have a minimal level of professional competence and play calling that we did not see that MNF.

Uh... they go back to the film on Tuesday and say, "Hey Buddy... you missed them... again"......?
Are you proposing that they don't talk about the mistakes on Tuesday...?
Are you proposing that another offensive coordinator could express his dismay better... and clean up Bozeman's shortcomings...?

We have predictable plays because we have predictable players.
This was a roster overhaul. There were going to be holes on the roster for a few years.
They tried to plug the center position with a guy they thought they could trust. He'd done it before.

If you want to play the blame game... Tom Telesco seems like a logical starting place.
We're 20-10 since he's left. That's amazing... considering the mess he left us with.
We had Slater, Herbie, and Mack... and an un-refined Tuli. Most of the other players didn't fit the new coach's idea of football.
We are 1-step from building a great team... minus the untimely injuries... and people want to tear it down. SMH.

[Boltnut]

Very well said. Of course I want to make the playoffs, and see what happens from there, but to be 9-4 with all of the injuries we've had along the offensive line and to our top two running backs is quite an accomplishment.

Right...!? When Slater went down... I thought, well we might still make the playoffs. We won't do much, but we probably make it. And then Najee... then Omarion... then Alt...

I thought there was no way we make the playoffs. But here we are... scrapping for our lives against other teams with far better rosters than us... I predicted the Chargers to lose to the Eagles... way before all of those major injuries.

Oh wait, I'm not supposed to mention injuries... LOL!

[BigBad]

Right...!? When Slater went down... I thought, well we might still make the playoffs. We won't do much, but we probably make it. And then Najee... then Omarion... then Alt...

I thought there was no way we make the playoffs. But here we are... scrapping for our lives against other teams with far better rosters than us... I predicted the Chargers to lose to the Eagles... way before all of those major injuries.

Oh wait, I'm not supposed to mention injuries... LOL!

Are you honestly going to sit here and say with a straight face that Reid, Shannahan, McVey, Ben Johnson, Josh McDaniels, Mike McDaniel, etc, couldn't scheme open Ladd, Keenan, Tre, and Gadson? I understand it's difficult when your o-line allows pressure with only 4 rushers, BUT THAT IS THE JOB!!!! All of those guys I mentioned would have this offense working regardless of missing tackles. It wouldn't be great, but it would be functional. Roman's pass game is dysfunctional without a run game, and it's dangerous for Herbert.

[BigBad]

Look at this old thread... https://www.reddit.com/r/ravens/comm...or_greg_roman/

Some excerpts that seem VERY familiar:

Greg's runs scheme was All Pro. We will absolutely miss the fuck out of it moving forward.

Greg's passing scheme was High School. It was as bad as it gets, and when defenses figured that out, it rendered the All Pro run game useless.

The team was performing because Lamar Jackson put on heroic performances every week. The game Plan for our offense was “have everyone run around and let Lamar make magic”

the issue with Roman’s offense specifically is that after a couple years, it becomes very stale and predictable. the same thing happened when he was the HC in Buffalo and OC in San Francisco. bad passing schemes, time management issues, and just generally bad playcalling in the redzone and on 3rd down

[BigBad]

Greg Roman special.....
Has this EVER happened to Keenan Allen in his entire career?

[Bolt4Knob]

Are you honestly going to sit here and say with a straight face that Reid, Shannahan, McVey, Ben Johnson, Josh McDaniels, Mike McDaniel, etc, couldn't scheme open Ladd, Keenan, Tre, and Gadson? I understand it's difficult when your o-line allows pressure with only 4 rushers, BUT THAT IS THE JOB!!!! All of those guys I mentioned would have this offense working regardless of missing tackles. It wouldn't be great, but it would be functional. Roman's pass game is dysfunctional without a run game, and it's dangerous for Herbert.

This! And has he tried anything new to 1) limit the number of times Herbert is hit 2) create plays that are like an Easy go to button

I think most fans get the OLine is not as good as we all hoped. But it seems Roman is running the same damn offense, spread 'em out, five wides, limited protection in spite of the woes of the Oline.

And when Roman did draw a good running play in OT - he quit in. Marty used to have that one play against the Raiders and LT and he beat them over the head with it

Max protect
quick plays
run some screens
use Harris and QJ on bubble plays to use their ability to run with the ball

Mina had Solak on her podcast and she mentioned that Herberts average depth throwing the ball was over 10 yards against the Eagles. Are you fucking shitting me!! against that defense.

There are younger, more creative minds all across the NFL - Harbaugh needs to cut the chord and hire one of them