Greg Roman OC Discussion, Part 2

[dmac_bolt]

There...fixed it for 'ya!

If you’re expecting quality at OT5 and OT6, you’re in the wrong league. No team has that. Salyer and Pipkins are perfectly decent backup quality. We could survive the loss of OT1 and OT2 better if we had even average play from OC1 and RG1. I think Herbert gets hit more and faster from the inside than the edges even now

[Topcat]

Yes but they can't patch something 12k feet under water.
Herbert already has a broken hand.. Hope they miss the Bergs ahead

Precisely my point...u can't patch up Gro...they need to let him go...

[Topcat]

If you’re expecting quality at OT5 and OT6, you’re in the wrong league. No team has that. Salyer and Pipkins are perfectly decent backup quality. We could survive the loss of OT1 and OT2 better if we had even average play from OC1 and RG1. I think Herbert gets hit more and faster from the inside than the edges even now

That's why I want to extend Salyer...but another poster said he'll be gone to FA...and I wanted to keep Pip this season for depth, while other posters wanted to get rid of him for a 7th rounder...

[Boltnut]

Are you honestly going to sit here and say with a straight face that Reid, Shannahan, McVey, Ben Johnson, Josh McDaniels, Mike McDaniel, etc, couldn't scheme open Ladd, Keenan, Tre, and Gadson? I understand it's difficult when your o-line allows pressure with only 4 rushers, BUT THAT IS THE JOB!!!! All of those guys I mentioned would have this offense working regardless of missing tackles. It wouldn't be great, but it would be functional. Roman's pass game is dysfunctional without a run game, and it's dangerous for Herbert.

Reid, McVey, Shannahan... even Johnson. Very good offensive minds.
Every single one of them has an OL much better than what Roman has been given this year. Most of them also have very good receivers, too. We know what they look like without their stars, though. It ain't pretty. It never is...

[dmac_bolt]

That's why I want to extend Salyer...but another poster said he'll be gone to FA...and I wanted to keep Pip this season for depth, while other posters wanted to get rid of him for a 7th rounder...

Same. I’d extend Salyer and I strongly opposed cutting or trading Pipkins.

[jaguarmanftype]

Same. I’d extend Salyer and I strongly opposed cutting or trading Pipkins.

I don't think Salyer is on our books to be extended -- there are simply too many teams needy for starting-level tackles, and he's above average as a pass blocker. Even Pipkins is not out of the question to go elsewhere, especially if there are any desperate teams needing to upgrade their OTs. I hope I'm wrong and we can hold on to them, but it's plausible they will leave through FA especially considering how weak that class is potentially looking. Of course, there is the potential of tendering one or both -- I have yet to see many teams utilize that, but maybe Hortiz would explore it.

[NoMoreChillies]

OL's are great when they function all together. That doesn't happen when you have a new starting 5 every game. And it certainly doesn't happen with #4 and #5 OT's subbing in for Pro Bowlers... guards moving to tackle... guys off the street... other team's rejects... I know, you guys think that injuries are just an excuse. If that were the case, then anybody could replace anybody. Take your 6th round O-lineman and just coach him up... Five or six games ago, I saw a graphic showing that the Chargers had gone through 23 different iterations along the OL. I can't imagine what it's at now...

We currently have 1 player along the OL that some of us are CONSIDERING... maybe re-signing for next year.
Nobody watches the fatties... I get it... it's boring. It takes film study... it takes knowledge. It probably helps if you've played along the OL or studied a playbook. There are mountains and mountains of material. Let's just say, it takes more than a couple weeks to absorb. I'm sure Devlin and Roman have dumbed it down quite a bit for the newbies...

You guys wanted to see a screen pass... We saw one last night. Obviously, the timing isn't there yet. I can tell you from experience, it's one of the hardest plays to run for an OL. If I were calling plays, I wouldn't attempt it with the crew we have right now. It was a wasted play, IMO. It's one of the quickest ways to give up a pick-6. It wouldn't suggest running it against the Chiefs, Texans, or Broncos.

You guys wanted short routes and slants. That's fine when a team is in zone coverage and there's space. But don't try it against tight, bump-and-run man coverage like we saw with the Eagles last night. They have two of the best cover corners in the league. Very physical players that will throw you off your routes... and once that happens... incompletions and interceptions.

You want your TE's to pass block. All you've done is take a guy out of the pattern. And the opposing defense has shifted their pass rush to the inside away from the TE (who they can easily cover because there are fewer WR's for the LB's and safeties to worry about).

You want Matlock on the field... only to find that you are telegraphing a run play.

Suggestion after suggestion from arm-chair quarterbacks... to guys that eat, sleep, and poop football for a majority of their lives. They've forgotten more football than we'll ever learn.

Having said all of that... I am neither Pro-Roman nor Anti-Roman...
I simply can't judge a pro coach who has been given a lack of playmakers (last year) or a legitimate OL (this year).
The fact that we're 20-10 the last 2 years (with this mess) actually has me leaning Pro-Roman...

said it better than i ever could cheers

you should cross post this to Reddit coz they fumbling this victory celebration over there

[NoMoreChillies]

Complete garbage

Funny you show this play

Its the exact same play I showcased earlier in the season that worked multiple times. Obviously Eagles DC watches film too. This should also quiet those screaming for 13 personell and run B gap until they stop it. Once its on film its going to be defended well. Watch some all -22 and see the wrinkles GRo uses. Previous week i showcased GRo using 2 formations and disguising his run plays to keep Radiers DC Patrick Graham off balance. GRo struggled this week coz its Vic Fangio, you know the guy they named the defensive style after.


I am so baffled by Charger fans that cannot celebrate our over-achieving team and instead wanna fire everyone and tear it down the day after a MASSIVE UPSET to move to 9-4. Celebrate this season fans, its truly special.

[ChargingBolts]

Hopefully Jim doesn't hire his old OC from UM Sherone Moore who was fired today for inappropriate staff relationship then arrested hours later losing his shit for getting fired.

[dmac_bolt]

OL's are great when they function all together. That doesn't happen when you have a new starting 5 every game. And it certainly doesn't happen with #4 and #5 OT's subbing in for Pro Bowlers... guards moving to tackle... guys off the street... other team's rejects... I know, you guys think that injuries are just an excuse. If that were the case, then anybody could replace anybody. Take your 6th round O-lineman and just coach him up... Five or six games ago, I saw a graphic showing that the Chargers had gone through 23 different iterations along the OL. I can't imagine what it's at now...

We currently have 1 player along the OL that some of us are CONSIDERING... maybe re-signing for next year.
Nobody watches the fatties... I get it... it's boring. It takes film study... it takes knowledge. It probably helps if you've played along the OL or studied a playbook. There are mountains and mountains of material. Let's just say, it takes more than a couple weeks to absorb. I'm sure Devlin and Roman have dumbed it down quite a bit for the newbies...

You guys wanted to see a screen pass... We saw one last night. Obviously, the timing isn't there yet. I can tell you from experience, it's one of the hardest plays to run for an OL. If I were calling plays, I wouldn't attempt it with the crew we have right now. It was a wasted play, IMO. It's one of the quickest ways to give up a pick-6. It wouldn't suggest running it against the Chiefs, Texans, or Broncos.

You guys wanted short routes and slants. That's fine when a team is in zone coverage and there's space. But don't try it against tight, bump-and-run man coverage like we saw with the Eagles last night. They have two of the best cover corners in the league. Very physical players that will throw you off your routes... and once that happens... incompletions and interceptions.

You want your TE's to pass block. All you've done is take a guy out of the pattern. And the opposing defense has shifted their pass rush to the inside away from the TE (who they can easily cover because there are fewer WR's for the LB's and safeties to worry about).

You want Matlock on the field... only to find that you are telegraphing a run play.

Suggestion after suggestion from arm-chair quarterbacks... to guys that eat, sleep, and poop football for a majority of their lives. They've forgotten more football than we'll ever learn.

Having said all of that... I am neither Pro-Roman nor Anti-Roman...
I simply can't judge a pro coach who has been given a lack of playmakers (last year) or a legitimate OL (this year).
The fact that we're 20-10 the last 2 years (with this mess) actually has me leaning Pro-Roman...

I agree with maybe 70%, and great post.
- The short quick routes don’t work against tight press man. Thats exactly what PHI bet, they could press at the LOS, disrupt initial receiver steps and routes, and get their pass rush home before the receivers have time to beat the man. Worked all over the field all night.
- Screens do require some coordination, are not the magic bean some expect them to be. Our one screen flopped as you note.
- I’ve yet to be impressed that Matlock has a high enough block rate to warrant the status he’s given in the offense. Far too many whiffs for my take.

BUT

Our IOL are not off the street newbies. They are the same starting core that was there in camp. They are all vets. 2 of them were there the entire 2024 season. many of their mistakes are internal errors between and within those 3 positions and not involving OTs at all. It is ironic that we consistently see our backup benchwarming OTs play better than our experienced veteran OGs and OC every game, game after game.

For two years, we have seen an IOL that is consistently below average NFL competence level at recognizing and managing basic stunts, overloads and blitzes. Add in they get beat 1x1 at a higher than average rate too and you get the horrible OL play we see. It’s visible to casual observers and was notably bad Monday night. These are not rare esoteric defensive techniques, they are bread and butter NFL staples every OL should have some competence against. PHI was not beating them with 5 and 6 rushers, they were storming the castle untouched with only 4 rushers - that is completely unacceptable. If it were week one or even month 1, there is a possibility its familiarity. At week 15, that no longer is an acceptable excuse for an IOL group that has played together the entire year.

I stand by my diagnoses (noting we all just have opinions)
1. Gro and Devlin are inadequate at teaching or correcting IOL responsibilities to an NFL level and adjusting to what defense are doing during a game. Sure they could forget more football than I know. So what, I am not the mark to measure against. They grade in the bottom quartile of their NFL coaching peers at best and their roles should be upgraded in 2026.
- Gro has additional play design and play calling / adjusting deficiencies beyond this core problem that requires more than just OL Coach upgrade.
2. Boze and Becton are sufficiently individually poor they should be upgraded in 2026

In order to get better, LAC has to do something different. Monday Night proved doing the same will return more of the same. Again. It was not a one-off, not just a bad night, it was a common reoccurring normal.

Until then - fight and do the best they can to finish this year, there is no Option B this year. Other parts of the team are stellar and over-perform and they have an elite QB that gives LAC a puncher’s chance every game. But the OL is the singular reason they are underdogs in every remaining game from now to the end. The sub-.500 KC that LAC already beat once is favored by more than 4, with their own significant OL and other issues. This one reason is why.

[Topcat]

I don't think Salyer is on our books to be extended -- there are simply too many teams needy for starting-level tackles, and he's above average as a pass blocker. Even Pipkins is not out of the question to go elsewhere, especially if there are any desperate teams needing to upgrade their OTs. I hope I'm wrong and we can hold on to them, but it's plausible they will leave through FA especially considering how weak that class is potentially looking. Of course, there is the potential of tendering one or both -- I have yet to see many teams utilize that, but maybe Hortiz would explore it.

Not a bad idea...place a 2nd round tender on Salyer and see if anyone bites...

[Boltnut]

said it better than i ever could cheers

you should cross post this to Reddit coz they fumbling this victory celebration over there

Thanks, Mate! I really like the job you do with the All-22 film breakdown. Keep it up. Amazing what you can learn watching every player, every play.

I haven't got the time to keep the Reddit crowd under control... I can barely manage this group! LOL!