Why Eli Manning Didn't Want to Go to the Chargers

[powderblueboy]

I was talking about Brees being failed by Marty's coaching. No, Marty was not the coach when Brees was drafted so technically saying it was an error to say he was drafted under Marty but the point I was making is still accurate, he was developed under Marty. Marty was the main person responisble for his development and his only coach in SD as a starter. Brees started for 2 seasons under Marty and Marty did not recognize or develop what we now know was an all time HOF QB, that was the point. Marty gave up on Brees and fell in love with Rivers. Marty also refused to believe Brees was a franchise QB, even after he was winning the division title and going to Pro bowls, and was never willing to part with Rivers and commit to Brees. Sure you might say he was covering for AJ, but no one thinks AJ and Marty were looking out for each other. I posted the article talking about Brees investing in his own coaches and trainers; it's factual. Brees was an after thought after 2003. He was labelled a bust. His replacement was drafted. People thought he was crazy when he still expressed belief in himself, that he would win the starting job go to the probowl and take the team to the playoffs. What he did in 2004 shocked the NFL. It shocked Marty, who was as close as he could have been to permanently benching Brees after a 1-2 start. Rivers was Marty's plan. It shocked the fans. And that was only the first way that Marty nearly ruined Brees career. The second was the meaningless exposure to injury that led to him only getting an offer from one other team in the league because no one knew if he could ever play again even after what he did in 04 and 05.

The youtube video I did not watch, but the video said it was from 6 months ago. So whenever the video is from I am not claiming Brees talks shit about Marty or the Chargers. What I am claiming is that he has every right to talk shit, he is just too good a dude to do that.

So I got to say, if you think geez Brees played great in 04 and 05, and that Marty is a QB guru who developed him and the incredible Kosar you are just being a blind Marty worshipper. I think you got your facts wrong and seriously question if you were a fan back then or were paying any attention. The facts are Marty failed Brees, gave up on him, then Brees refused to be cast aside and bet on himself (see article I posted) and proved Marty wrong after Rivers gave him an opening by holding out as a rookie. He became a HOF QB and won a Superbowl, so he factually proved all his doubters in SD wrong as well. Is it not a fact that the Chargers would have been better off keeping Brees for his career and not investing in another QB?

And by the way, Thank AJ we got Norv so Rivers was actually developed in to a Franchise QB by a real QB coach. Rivers was a game manager under Marty even though it was his third year in the league and did not fully develop until he got Norv.

But you didn't answer my trivia question Blazingbolt: what two things did Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers have in common, when starting a full season under Marty?

Answer: both made it to the pro bowl in their 3rd season playing under Marty Schottenheimer - the guy who couldn't develop young QBs.

These are the pertinent facts....no?

[DerwinBosa]

I was talking about Brees being failed by Marty's coaching. No, Marty was not the coach when Brees was drafted so technically saying it was an error to say he was drafted under Marty but the point I was making is still accurate, he was developed under Marty. Marty was the main person responisble for his development and his only coach in SD as a starter. Brees started for 2 seasons under Marty and Marty did not recognize or develop what we now know was an all time HOF QB, that was the point. Marty gave up on Brees and fell in love with Rivers. Marty also refused to believe Brees was a franchise QB, even after he was winning the division title and going to Pro bowls, and was never willing to part with Rivers and commit to Brees. Sure you might say he was covering for AJ, but no one thinks AJ and Marty were looking out for each other. I posted the article talking about Brees investing in his own coaches and trainers; it's factual. Brees was an after thought after 2003. He was labelled a bust. His replacement was drafted. People thought he was crazy when he still expressed belief in himself, that he would win the starting job go to the probowl and take the team to the playoffs. What he did in 2004 shocked the NFL. It shocked Marty, who was as close as he could have been to permanently benching Brees after a 1-2 start. Rivers was Marty's plan. It shocked the fans. And that was only the first way that Marty nearly ruined Brees career. The second was the meaningless exposure to injury that led to him only getting an offer from one other team in the league because no one knew if he could ever play again even after what he did in 04 and 05.

The youtube video I did not watch, but the video said it was from 6 months ago. So whenever the video is from I am not claiming Brees talks shit about Marty or the Chargers. What I am claiming is that he has every right to talk shit, he is just too good a dude to do that.

So I got to say, if you think geez Brees played great in 04 and 05, and that Marty is a QB guru who developed him and the incredible Kosar you are just being a blind Marty worshipper. I think you got your facts wrong and seriously question if you were a fan back then or were paying any attention. The facts are Marty failed Brees, gave up on him, then Brees refused to be cast aside and bet on himself (see article I posted) and proved Marty wrong after Rivers gave him an opening by holding out as a rookie. He became a HOF QB and won a Superbowl, so he factually proved all his doubters in SD wrong as well. Is it not a fact that the Chargers would have been better off keeping Brees for his career and not investing in another QB?

And by the way, Thank AJ we got Norv so Rivers was actually developed in to a Franchise QB by a real QB coach. Rivers was a game manager under Marty even though it was his third year in the league and did not fully develop until he got Norv.

I think you are way off in believing that Norv Turner was a better head coach than Marty Schottenheimer. For whatever reason, you have always held onto that belief even though it clearly isn't true. You also aren't being truthful after you were completely mistaken about how Marty felt about Drew Brees, and how Brees felt about him. Here is the quote from Brees in the "A Football Life" episode, in which Marty was very much alive.

“I give Marty so much credit as far as my maturation as a quarterback in this league. And he benched me three times, but there were times where I needed that. That was part of my growth. I was still his guy, and I felt that all the way through, so I love him for that. And that carried over to 2004, when we had one of our better seasons.”

Yes, Marty coached Rivers in the 2004 Senior Bowl and loved him. Once Brees started playing well in 2004, however, Marty wanted Brees to remain his quarterback. He was on the record in stating he wanted to keep them both. It was Rivers, understandably, who said in 2005 that he and Brees, while friends, weren't going to want to remain together on the same team in San Diego. Rivers wanted to play. And A.J. Smith is the one who wanted him to play, much in part due to Rivers' $40 million contract, but Marty wasn't going to do that when Brees was throwing 27 touchdown passes and only seven interceptions in 2004.

Is it not a fact that the Chargers would have been better off keeping Brees for his career and not investing in another QB?

No, it is not a fact. As I said before, I think we had a Super Bowl team in 2005 and Brees didn't step up that year. He threw 15 interceptions and fumbled eight times in 2005 while throwing for only 24 touchdowns. The next year Rivers protected the ball better, throwing for only nine interceptions and legitimately making the Pro Bowl over Tom Brady. I think it was best for Brees to go to New Orleans, play in a dome at least nine times a year (the Saints play one road game against Atlanta at least once every season), and develop more under a superior quarterback teacher in Sean Payton (yes, I think he is a better coach than Schottenheimer). I think Brees would have flamed out in San Diego, especially after the Marty firing and hiring of a much inferior coach in Norv Turner (58-82-1 record over nine seasons with the Redskins and Raiders before A.J. hired him). Brees and Norv? Would have been a disaster. I guarantee that Brees is very thankful that it turned out the way it did.

As far as Bernie Kosar goes, you're not being truthful with that, either. You claim he was not a franchise quarterback in Cleveland. While it's true he wasn't Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly, or Warren Moon, Bernie got the Browns to three AFC Championship Games over a four-year period, and the team should have been in the Super Bowl after he outplayed Elway in a shootout loss (38-33) in the 1987 AFC Championship Game. Unfortunately for Bernie and the Browns, Earnest Byner fumbled at the goal line on a play that should have been the game-winner. If you get your team to three AFC Championship Games in four years, play well enough in at least two of them to get the team to the Super Bowl (but your running back fumbles or your defense fails you in the final drive), and spend nine years with the same team under three different head coaches, you are a franchise quarterback. Sorry you can't see that. Nearly everyone else who watched Bernie Kosar can see that. For whatever reason, you're just a Marty Schottenheimer hater, to the point you'll glorify a failure in a head coach in Norv Turner.

The youtube video I did not watch, but the video said it was from 6 months ago. So whenever the video is from I am not claiming Brees talks shit about Marty or the Chargers. What I am claiming is that he has every right to talk shit, he is just too good a dude to do that.

That YouTube video was UPLOADED by some random user six months ago. That individual didn't create the "A Football Life" episode. "A Football Life" was a series run by the NFL Network, which featured many episodes of NFL legends. The series didn't include Norv Turner, but it had episodes on plenty of others, including LaDainian Tomlinson and Marty. Brees not only didn't talk shit in the Marty episode, but he also praised him when he didn't have to participate in the episode at all. He was the only quarterback who played for Marty to participate in the episode. Rivers didn't. Kosar didn't. Montana didn't. Gannon didn't. Just Brees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Football_Life

Season Three

1	LaDainian Tomlinson	September 3, 2013
2	Don Shula	September 10, 2013
3	Darrelle Revis	September 17, 2013
4	Derrick Thomas	September 24, 2013
5	Steve Sabol	October 1, 2013
6	Matt Millen	October 8, 2013
7	Michael Strahan	October 15, 2013
8	Pat Summerall	October 22, 2013
9	Warren Sapp	October 29, 2013
10	Randall Cunningham	November 5, 2013
11	Cris Carter	November 12, 2013
12	The Forward Pass	November 19, 2013
13	Steve Gleason	November 26, 2013
14	The Great Wall of Dallas	December 3, 2013
15	Houston '93	December 10, 2013
16	Marty Schottenheimer	December 17, 2013
17	Vince Lombardi	December 24, 2013
18	December 31, 2013
19	Tiki & Ronde Barber	January 7, 2014
20	Bill Parcells	January 14, 2014
21	Jerry Smith	January 21, 2014
22	Jerry Rice	January 28, 2014

[powderblueboy]

That YouTube video was UPLOADED by some random user six months ago. That individual didn't create the "A Football Life" episode. "A Football Life" was a series run by the NFL Network, which featured many episodes of NFL legends. The series didn't include Norv Turner, but it had episodes on plenty of others, including LaDainian Tomlinson and Marty. Brees not only didn't talk shit in the Marty episode, but he also praised him when he didn't have to participate in the episode at all. He was the only quarterback who played for Marty to participate in the episode. Rivers didn't. Kosar didn't. Montana didn't. Gannon didn't. Just Brees.

You will never win DerwinBosa ..... let me show you.

Of course Rivers, Kosar, Montana, Gannon were absent.... they flat refused to appear on the program. You don't think they were asked to come on? They personally experienced how Schottenheimer sucked the life out of QBs and said no thankyou!

With Brees - have you ever heard of the Stockholm syndrome were people sympathize with their kidnappers? Breese was such a victim, whose career shot off like a rocket ship once he left good old Marty's embrace, going from washed up has been at the end of his Charger contract to a 1rst ballot HOFer.

Montana, Gannon, Rivers, Brees ... they all had their best years away from Schottsy. Boy are you a loser if you have been sucked this deeply into the Marty fan boy world!

I was having fun with Derwin Bosa ... one poster (who will be left nameless) accused us of being blind Marty worshippers and that we were not Charger fans 'back then'.

I am a Marty Schottenheimver fan.

[wu-dai clan]

I see posts that are accusatory in tone, provocative. Dial it back please.

Do not proclaim what someone you disagree with is thinking. That style of debate is inflammatory.

Stick to facts, Son.

TPB has not even put on the pads yet. It's still 7 on 7 time.

[Fleet 1]

I see posts that are accusatory in tone, provocative. Dial it back please.

Do not proclaim what someone you disagree with is thinking. That style of debate is inflammatory.

Stick to facts, Son.

TPB has not even put on the pads yet. It's still 7 on 7 time.

Thank you. Its a bummer.

[Fleet 1]

I think some good edits were made. Thanks

[powderblueboy]

You will never win DerwinBosa ..... let me show you.

Of course Rivers, Kosar, Montana, Gannon were absent.... they flat refused to appear on the program. You don't think they were asked to come on? They personally experienced how Schottenheimer sucked the life out of QBs and said no thankyou!

With Brees - have you ever heard of the Stockholm syndrome were people sympathize with their kidnappers? Breese was such a victim, whose career shot off like a rocket ship once he left good old Marty's embrace, going from washed up has been at the end of his Charger contract to a 1rst ballot HOFer.

Montana, Gannon, Rivers, Brees ... they all had their best years away from Schottsy. Boy are you a loser if you have been sucked this deeply into the Marty fan boy world!

I was having fun with Derwin Bosa ... one poster (who will be left nameless) accused us of being blind Marty worshippers and that we were not Charger fans 'back then'.

I am a Marty Schottenheimver fan.

I was having fun with Derwin Bosa ... one poster (who will be left nameless) accused us both of being blind Marty worshippers and that we were not Charger fans 'back then'.

I am a Marty Schottenheimer fan, sucked deeply into ....

[DerwinBosa]

I was having fun with Derwin Bosa ... one poster (who will be left nameless) accused us both of being blind Marty worshippers and that we were not Charger fans 'back then'.

I am a Marty Schottenheimer fan, sucked deeply into ....

I knew you were. Sorry I didn't hit the laughing emoji. I'll do it now. Lol.

[Fleet 1]

Yes DB explained it to me. I reached out and it was explained. But i still tend to think we shouldnt impersonate posters. Especially if the gig is requiring perceived personal attacks. The staff here doesnt see all the little details like that.

I didnt just go right to banning. I hate banning. We have a couple rules. And i will never be able to protect the community as a whole if i allow it to happen. Many here...most here in fact...just wander off if it goes unchecked.

I have thick skin...i do what i do however for the community as a whole.

Its like a tailgate here. Most are just shooting the shit and chill. If i let fights break out...it sucks for everyone else. Especially when a couple dudes jump from thread to thread hating on each other.

This place isnt easy to moderate. I pretty much dont even post football takes anymore since im always dealing with that or tech issues.

[dmac_bolt]

I was a Marty fan … I remember the decade of teams before him vs what happened almost immediately when he arrived. He tuned 3 franchises around from worst to first - including then SDC. thats one hell of a lucky run if he wasn’t a good coach.

[BlazingBolt]

I was a Marty fan too when he came here, I liked his English major theatrics and dramatics to give the team an identity it had been lacking. I was a fan of getting to the post season. He did that, eventually. But the facts are he was the worst playoff coach in the history of the NFL and sucked at developing QBs , we saw it repeating in SD, and I think we needed to move on if we wanted to go further. The facts are Marty never got another NFL job. The facts are we went further without him and were likely only stopped by freaking playoff injuries.

To think that Brees career would have flamed out if SD committed to him instead of labelling him a bust and drafting his replacement is a pretty wild take to me. Brees was a great QB in college, went 8-8 his first year as a starter with a really bad team, and the 03 team was a David Boston injury disaster year that was bad for Brees development but you have to understand when you have a young QB who has no help. Brees was awful in 2003 but I thought I saw enough as a QB starved bolts fan from him in preseasons and his 02 year to know he had more potential than I had seen watching since 91. I thought drafting another QB was pushing reset on Marty 5 year plan again and I already felt Marty was a great turn it around coach but that he could not get us where we needed to go. I did not think QB had to be the pick just because we had first overall, thought we could trade it to a truly QB desperate team and load up. I believed in giving QBs time to develop. I thought our 2001 draft was great enough that we should have continued to build around it rather than spending it all on a QB and not maximizing value. 04 and 05 teams were driven by Brees and I don't even think he really had that great of weapons outside LT and Gates.

I think in 06 if we had a veteran future HOF QB instead of a first time starter that team is even better than #1 seed and no playoff wins.
Giving all Brees success to his coach in New Orleans is just a hard cope for SD fans that gave up on Brees and didn't like him when he was in SD.

As far as Kosars team going to the AFC Championship game I don't judge a QB with pretty bad career stats overall on a winning team to be a great QB. Bernie Kosar is like on par with Geno Smith without the longevity. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won Superbowls. Career high 22 TDs and some AFC Championship losses is a low low low bar. We consider Justin Herbert to be a great QB with zero playoff wins. We do not consider Tobin Rote and Stan Humphries to be the two greatest QBs in Chargers history.

[Boltjolt]

Yes DB explained it to me. I reached out and it was explained. But i still tend to think we shouldnt impersonate posters. Especially if the gig is requiring perceived personal attacks. The staff here doesnt see all the little details like that.

I didnt just go right to banning. I hate banning. We have a couple rules. And i will never be able to protect the community as a whole if i allow it to happen. Many here...most here in fact...just wander off if it goes unchecked.

I have thick skin...i do what i do however for the community as a whole.

Its like a tailgate here. Most are just shooting the shit and chill. If i let fights break out...it sucks for everyone else. Especially when a couple dudes jump from thread to thread hating on each other.

This place isnt easy to moderate. I pretty much dont even post football takes anymore since im always dealing with that or tech issues.

Need the mods to stay in here ALL day lol.... J/K...but speaking of which, just hit me we havent seen Xenos much at all for seems a while. Ive cut down posting since the draft a lot as to me there isnt much to talk about so i get it but isnt he also a mod?