Oh Boy...I'm gonna get nailed for this one.

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  • Beerman
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jun 2013
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    #25
    You know what would get us back in a good position, a very high draft pick and all the underclass QBs to declare. Then we trade out of the position and get a ton of picks. We need talent. A lot of it.

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    • SDFan
      Woober Goober
      • Jun 2013
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      #26
      Originally posted by QSmokey View Post
      100% agree with this assessment. I purposely left off the word "now" from my "Trade Rivers" scenario, not because I'd be against it necessarily (for a Cutler-like deal, as you say), but because it will never happen during the season.

      I just had to throw a topic out there that was kind of a ridiculous. Seemed appropriate after a ridiculous loss.
      ridiculous is your middle name
      Life is too short to drink cheap beer :beer:

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      • BlazingBolt
        SLAM DUNK!
        • Jun 2013
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        #27
        Originally posted by QSmokey View Post
        If he can't play then you get nothing in return. If he's playing at a pretty high level - as he is now - then his value has skyrocketed, particularly for a desperate team like Houston. It would be a bold, bold move; almost certain to be universally criticized; and will empty the seats at Qualcomm. And this organization has never had the guts to something so aggressive.
        This is serious? Was Carson Palmer playing at a high level when he got traded?

        It would not be a bold move. Shockingly stupid, unexplainable, and completely with out merit is not the same thing as bold. Universally criticized and empty seats I agree with and......wait you are trying to spin it to make sense in some way?

        In some hypothetical world where maybe the Chargers have a young QB they really like and they lose a few more games perhaps it may make some sense.

        The hardest part of building a team is the QB...we have that and that makes everything else easier.
        Last edited by BlazingBolt; 10-07-2013, 09:37 AM.
        migrated from chargerfans.net then the thenflforum.com then here

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        • Yubaking
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          • Jul 2013
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          #28
          Originally posted by QSmokey View Post
          Trade Rivers??

          Yes, yes, I know...he is NOT the problem. In fact, he is one of the few bright spots in an already dismal season. But, he is 31. The team really does suck. We are going nowhere this year and next, at least.

          There are a number of teams that would probably give us something for Rivers:

          Houston; Minnesota; Cleveland

          The Raiders' 'egg' could really be a turning point for this team this year. The once-thought-possible 7-9 win season (by many) might realistically be a 4-5 win season.

          I think Houston would probably offer the best deal; Cleveland has 2 first round picks (and a couple of 2nds, too). Hoya is gone with an ACL, so he's probably out for a full calendar year. Minny is so desperate that they claimed Freeman off the street.

          With a Top 5 pick looming (possibly higher), throw in a nice deal for Rivers, and grab yourself a new QB and a new LT. Then spend the rest of your draft picks on defense.

          Sorry...somebody had to exhume this topic. Seemed especially appropriate this morning.
          You are not going to get nailed by me and that's a sad thing because Rivers is my favorite current Charger and one of my favorite Chargers ever.

          It actually makes perfect sense if you can get the right kind of value for him. In my opinion, the right value is 3 first round picks, but I would think about two firsts and a second. Rivers' value won't get much higher than it is right now as Rivers is currently ranked 3rd in QB rating, 2nd in TDs and 3rd in total passing yards.

          Our defense will prevent us from winning for at least two years. We have OL needs (OC, LT) and RB needs. In two years, we will need to get another TE to preserve depth for when Gates retires.

          Our defense is in total clusterfuck mode and is at least two years from being even average. First, we need to decide what we are playing. I say screw the 4-3 and play the 3-4 and play it right. That means that we need a dominant NT. It is the most obvious thing and you would think that any real Chargers fan would know this just by comparing with Jamal to without Jamal. Sadly, even dominant NTs take a little time to develop out of college--no rookies dominate. We screwed ourselves by not taking a good NT in this year's draft, especially if we weren't going to keep Franklin. How could we not take Jenkins in the 3rd round?! I mean even if Allen turns into a Pro Bowler, we must have a dominant NT to be a top defensive team in a 3-4 and it takes at least two years from the time of being drafted to develop a NT into a dominant player. It's that simple. The longer the team waits, the longer the team is not going to be a good defensive team.

          As for the LBs, I have no trouble with Butler and Te'o, but we are not close at OLB. Freeney is 4-3 DE. He is not a good fit for our defense and I think our defense lacks identity because of it. Ingram is not a proven pass rusher either. So we need at least two more OLBs that can get after the QB. English must go. Freeney probably should go. Keiser and T. Williams should probably go as well. Basically, we have Ingram and horse manure when it comes to rushing the passer. I like J.J. as a run defender, but he is getting long in the tooth as well.

          Our CBs suck balls and/or are not coached properly. When the receiver is running down the field away from the QB, our CBs do not look for the ball. We might as well blindfold them. If this is what the CB is choosing to do, then we do not have even one starting level CB on our roster. If this is being coached, then whoever is coaching this technique needs to be fired and we need to figure out who is capable of looking for the ball. If Cox and/or Wright can look for the ball, then I think either can be a #2 CB or a reserve CB. We do not have a #1 CB on our roster. Based upon his speed, I wouldn't mind finding out what S. Williams can do. That said, we still need two top end CBs.

          We need a SS in the worst way. Does anyone dispute that Gilchrist has been a complete disaster at SS so far? So we need a SS and have needed a good one for many years.

          Since I think we are at least three additional good drafts away from being a serious threat, and would have time to develop a new QB while sucking, the move makes perfect sense and probably is in the best interest of the team going forward.

          I don't trust Telesco's thought process when it comes to drafting, but if he drafted well, I think we can be a serious playoff threat again in 2016.

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          • SFW
            PB Official Game Thread Starter
            • Jul 2013
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            #29
            For those that would want to trade Rivers what do you think they would (realistically) get for him? Hypothetically say they get a 1st and 3rd round pick.

            We then would use one of our 1st rd picks on a rookie QB and all we would have is an extra 3rd round pick. Personally I would rather have Rivers and only one pick per round than a rookie QB and tone extra 3rd round pick
            1) Jason Verrett (CB) TCU
            2) Demarcus Lawrence (OLB) Boise St
            3) Will Sutton (DT) Arizona St
            4) Jarvis Landry (WR) LSU
            5) John Urschel (OC) Penn St
            6) Shamar Stephen (DT) UConn
            7) Brock Coyle (ILB) Montana

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            • Maverick
              (Coryellian)
              • Jun 2013
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              #30
              Hell no

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              • Yubaking
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Jul 2013
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                #31
                Originally posted by SFWfromESPN View Post
                For those that would want to trade Rivers what do you think they would (realistically) get for him? Hypothetically say they get a 1st and 3rd round pick.

                We then would use one of our 1st rd picks on a rookie QB and all we would have is an extra 3rd round pick. Personally I would rather have Rivers and only one pick per round than a rookie QB and tone extra 3rd round pick
                I disagree as to your suggestion that Rivers would only draw a 1st and 3rd as an offer. The price for Cutler was a present year 1st and 3rd minus a 5th (from DEN back to CHI) plus a next year's 1st (i.e., two firsts plus). Rivers has greater value than Cutler. That's the basis that I am using to suggest a value of three first round picks.

                I agree with you in that I also would not trade Rivers for a first and a third.

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                • QSmokey
                  Guardedly Optimistic
                  • Jun 2013
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                  #32
                  Originally posted by BlazingBolt View Post
                  This is serious? Was Carson Palmer playing at a high level when he got traded?

                  It would not be a bold move. Shockingly stupid, unexplainable, and completely with out merit is not the same thing as bold. Universally criticized and empty seats I agree with and......wait you are trying to spin it to make sense in some way?

                  In some hypothetical world where maybe the Chargers have a young QB they really like and they lose a few more games perhaps it may make some sense.

                  The hardest part of building a team is the QB...we have that and that makes everything else easier.
                  It was thrown out there for a semi-serious discussion (hell, it's gotta be better than rehashing the Raider game, no? )

                  I think we're gonna have another dubious record this off-season to 'cherish', to go along with a gem like: The only team in NFL history to have the #1 ranked offense and defense in the same season and fail to make the playoffs.

                  The only team in NFL history to have a QB with a 70% completion record, 4500+ yards for the year, and 3 wins to show for it.

                  But Hey! We have a QB. Just no team around him. And since we can't seem to sign our good, young players; can't keep our players healthy; and won't spend money on quality free agents, I suppose having a good quarterback is enough.

                  How's that for spin?

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                  • BoltBalls
                    Always keep eye contact!
                    • Jun 2013
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                    #33
                    Was this an idea brewing after last week against Dallas or something to stir the pot after a poor showing this week vs the Raiders? :stirpot:

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                    • QSmokey
                      Guardedly Optimistic
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                      #34
                      Originally posted by BoltBalls View Post
                      Was this an idea brewing after last week against Dallas or something to stir the pot after a poor showing this week vs the Raiders? :stirpot:
                      Something to take everyone's mind off losing to the Raiders.

                      Personally, I find this year's team pretty laughable, in a sad way. The injuries, the pick 6s, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, the abominable lack of talent. All translates into a Top 10 Draft pick.

                      Cleveland made a bold - and highly criticized - move by dumping Richardson. Now they have a ton of draft picks...and a better record than us. Here's a bold prediction: The Cleveland Browns will win a Super Bowl before the Chargers unless the Chargers change the 'model' that has gotten them zero SB trophies in 50+ years.

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                      • BoltBalls
                        Always keep eye contact!
                        • Jun 2013
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                        #35
                        All of the team's catastrophic failures can definitely be laughable at how unbelievable they are and to this degree of failure. I do believe the 'model' is changing however, but the regime is less than half a season old so it is going to take time for a new culture to settle in. The Norv stench is fading, but still lingering around a bit.

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                        • Boltx
                          Gates in the HOF
                          • Jun 2013
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                          #36
                          I'm not necessarily against it, but I think you make this move if you think you're 3-4 years away from even competing. Like Jacksonville status.

                          Do you really think the Chargers are THAT far off? Look I know last night's game stung but teams go from awful to playoffs every year. Again, I am not against such a rebuild but only if you truly think there is no hope for another good 3-4 years. Plus there's almost no way we could get ourselves in position to draft Bridgewater.
                          ESPN Screename: GoBolts02

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