Reyes

[Fleet]

I dont think anyone would dispute Clowney as a player for us. The question is do you trade 3 firsts for him? Or sell the farm so to speak? Do you abandon the plan of building through the draft to move up and get him. If you take out the Clemson game he has 5/7 sacks in 2 years. I expect him to put up 15 sacks this year. No reason as the best pass rusher to come along in 10 years why he shouldn't be able to do that. Even against doubles. I want to see him obliterate OTs this year and show me he deserves to be the top player taken in the draft.

[MakoShark]

Aweful early to be annointing Clowney the clear #1, IMO. Anything can happen between now and the draft. Another pass rusher could emerge thats a lot more cost effective and he could be targeted by the Charger FO. I can't see trading the farm for anyone at this point. We still have too many holes to fill and need all our picks.

[SDFan]

I dont think anyone would dispute Clowney as a player for us. The question is do you trade 3 firsts for him? Or sell the farm so to speak? Do you abandon the plan of building through the draft to move up and get him. If you take out the Clemson game he has 5/7 sacks in 2 years. I expect him to put up 15 sacks this year. No reason as the best pass rusher to come along in 10 years why he shouldn't be able to do that. Even against doubles. I want to see him obliterate OTs this year and show me he deserves to be the top player taken in the draft.

nobody is giving up 3 1sts for any defensive player and TT is not going to move off the plan to build through the draft. How does ideas like that get legs?

[Steve]

Aweful early to be annointing Clowney the clear #1, IMO. Anything can happen between now and the draft. Another pass rusher could emerge thats a lot more cost effective and he could be targeted by the Charger FO. I can't see trading the farm for anyone at this point. We still have too many holes to fill and need all our picks.

It's not just us. A lot of people are annointing him the clear #1 going into the season, which is strange only in the sense that the guy will only be a junior. HE might still want to come back for his senior season.

AS far as production though, there are not many college pass rushers who are as effective as quickly as Clowney has been. Last year, he got a bunch of sacks as a 3rd down specialist. This year he was a starter and got a ton of sacks as a sophmore. The thing that is somewhat amazing is that South Carolina rotates their DE a lot, so he has gotten the sacks in many fewer plays then most other top college pass rushers get (Mingo and Montgomery for LSU played almost every down). Then add in that South Carolina plays a read and react 43 D, so that on a lot of plays, they flex the backside DE off the line, taking him out of pass rush position, so of those plays he gets, some of them he really can't get a good rush on the QB.

Clowney can implode, but that is the thing that would hurt his draft stock. Unlike many college pass rushers, he has great tools, great production, has the speed and agility to play OLB, and the frame to get bigger and play 43 DE. You don't see many college players who have all of that. Either they are scheme guys, or they are productive and have no upside, or they have upside and no production. Clowney has it all.

He is physical, but will continue to get better as his technique improves. And unlike a lot of fast, agile pass rushers, he doesn't shy away from contact or just run around blockers. He is pretty good at shedding blocks, especially for a guy who is as raw as he is. I like that he really generates power with his legs and knows how to use his speed and upper body to turn it into leverage and power. Once he learns to really use his hands, he will be really tough to block and more importantly keep blocked.

I think the bigger issue is not whether or not a team is willing to trade up, but whether a team is willing to trade down. Oakland might, but I think most teams would like to build a D around a guy like Clowney, so they might not want to trade. Not many guys are so clearly dominant, which is the point of having the #1 pick, to really address that lack of top players.

[Fleet]

nobody is giving up 3 1sts for any defensive player and TT is not going to move off the plan to build through the draft. How does ideas like that get legs?

So you pretty much agree with me then. lol

If were drafting top 2 you draft Clowney. However another Pass Rusher who started out at WR in 2010..then moved to RB in 2011...then moved to OLB in 2012 and was mind blowing dominant could emerge at another beast Pass Rusher if he can duplicate his 2012 production. Anthony Barr.

[Wheels]

Clowney is a beast and id love him...the question is would i mortgage the future on him. Would i trade 3 firsts for Watt or Ware?? Especially when this team needs so many drafted players to pan out? Its a tough decision for a new GM to make. It dosnt work out he probably gets fired and sets us back.

Again im just not sure the RG3/Clowney comparison was a good argument for selling the farm.

The only issue I'd have is the guy could be an awesome player but still get a knee or achilles injury, and not be the same again. Or he could be crazy good and command the type of salary that the team isn't willing to pay in 5 years. That's sort of a good problem to have, but still ends up tying a bunch of resources into one player. If done right, it's usually better to diffuse the risk and resources into several players. I'd agree the one position that's worthwhile to do so is QB, because they are protected much better from injury, and can last much longer.

[Fleet]

The only issue I'd have is the guy could be an awesome player but still get a knee or achilles injury, and not be the same again. Or he could be crazy good and command the type of salary that the team isn't willing to pay in 5 years. That's sort of a good problem to have, but still ends up tying a bunch of resources into one player. If done right, it's usually better to diffuse the risk and resources into several players. I'd agree the one position that's worthwhile to do so is QB, because they are protected much better from injury, and can last much longer.

I dont have a problem using the #1 overall in next years draft for Clowney. Trading out for 3 1st though would make my mouth water. I have a hard time passing that up. But just assuming nobody makes the trade i take Clowney number 1. Best player in the draft. Safest pick in the draft next to Jake Mathews.

My point though is that im not selling the farm for Clowney if my business model is to build the team through the draft. Not even sure how i would go about getting other play-makers on the team.

[Wheels]

I dont have a problem using the #1 overall in next years draft for Clowney. Trading out for 3 1st though would make my mouth water. I have a hard time passing that up. But just assuming nobody makes the trade i take Clowney number 1. Best player in the draft. Safest pick in the draft next to Jake Mathews.

My point though is that im not selling the farm for Clowney if my business model is to build the team through the draft. Not even sure how i would go about getting other play-makers on the team.

For sure Fleet, if we have the #1 and he's there, I wouldn't hesitate. I was more making the argument against making a Herschel Walker type trade to get in position to take him. I can see it for a QB, but any other position runs too much risk.

[Fleet]

For sure Fleet, if we have the #1 and he's there, I wouldn't hesitate. I was more making the argument against making a Herschel Walker type trade to get in position to take him. I can see it for a QB, but any other position runs too much risk.

Agreed. The way the roster sits now i couldn't do that. And if i take over the team prior to the 2013 draft and even think im going to sell the farm for a player in the 2014 draft im not saying over and over again that im building my team through the draft. If Clowney didnt work out after abandoning my publicly announced game-plan i probably have a hard time building up a positive resume as a GM or any other high profile team position going forward. Especially if im not able to recover from Clowney being a failed pick that i mortgaged the future on.

When you take over as a GM there has to be some forward thinking.

[Beerman]

Let's say Larry English, Ryan Mattews, and Antoine Cason are the 3 first rounders you are trading away. Now do you make the deal? :carlton:

[Panamamike]

So you pretty much agree with me then. lol

If were drafting top 2 you draft Clowney. However another Pass Rusher who started out at WR in 2010..then moved to RB in 2011...then moved to OLB in 2012 and was mind blowing dominant could emerge at another beast Pass Rusher if he can duplicate his 2012 production. Anthony Barr.

Barr is a beast. I would love to add him to the D and keep the picks others would trade away.

[Steve]

The real key to drafting well is not the top end of the draft. The real key is getting guys who develop in the middle and low end of the draft. if you can do that, it really lets you take a chance on the high end guys and go for greatness. But if you have to fill needs with the high end picks, then there is no margin for error at all.

To me, the issue isn't with 3 1st round picks as much as not having a 1st round pick for 3 years. If we could get an extra #1 in one of the next 2 season, then it might be worth it (depending on what the draft classes look like). But going 3 years without a top pick is just going to kill almost any team. You just cannot go that long without new talent coming into a team and still stay ahead of the salary cap.

The other way would be to add in players and try to use players instead of just trading draft picks. Floyd would be one player who might be worth trading, just because he is somewhat rare type of player, a deep threat in a day and age when relatively few deep threats around, so that he could get overvalued by someone.