Defense, defense, defense

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

This discussion is absurd. It's the equivalent of a fantasy football discussion. "Should have taken Jenkins over Allen in the third round because these yahoo draftniks ranked them at parity and we needed a NT more than a WR" even though we drafted a guy that was one of the leading offensive rookies in the league and gives every indication of being a Pro Bowl level talent going forward. Jerkins, meanwhile, did jack in his rookie year. I can't even believe people are arguing this. You'd think people would just be really, really, really happy that we drafted a kind of this caliber in the third round rather than nitpicking the positional pick. This team wouldn't have made the playoffs without Allen. The team looks to have nailed down a key starting spot for the foreseeable future with this kid. Jenkins remains a question mark.

I'm not really sure why pre-draft rankings by guys blogging from their grandmother's basement is or should be a substitute for what we saw with our own eyes on the field last season. Of course, the poster that is pushing this line is the same guy that was incredibly down on Allen during preseason, even going so far as to insult his speed and saying he could run faster than Allen. Doubling down on stupid.

[sandiego17]

The absurdity is using words like "failure" in the discussion about not drafting Jenkins. It would be absurd even if they didn't draft Allen.

The argument that the team needs a NT more than a WR is worthwhile, IMO. I do think that WR is still pretty big need, all the quality guys have an injury history (some major like Floyd and DX, who is a FA anyway), and that includes Allen. The team needs both, at least another capable Lissemore type.

[RobH]

The absurdity is using words like "failure" in the discussion about not drafting Jenkins. It would be absurd even if they didn't draft Allen.

The argument that the team needs a NT more than a WR is worthwhile, IMO. I do think that WR is still pretty big need, all the quality guys have an injury history (some major like Floyd and DX, who is a FA anyway), and that includes Allen. The team needs both, at least another capable Lissemore type.

Is DX a UFA or an RFA?

[Yubaking]

The absurdity is using words like "failure" in the discussion about not drafting Jenkins. It would be absurd even if they didn't draft Allen.

The argument that the team needs a NT more than a WR is worthwhile, IMO. I do think that WR is still pretty big need, all the quality guys have an injury history (some major like Floyd and DX, who is a FA anyway), and that includes Allen. The team needs both, at least another capable Lissemore type.

I agree with what you have said. I think a better statement would be that we missed an opportunity to get a NT that could have been our NT of the future by not taking Jenkins.

Unfortunately, at least one poster is not distinguishing between what things looked like at the time of the draft and what they look like now.

From an "at the time of the draft" standpoint, why we didn't take the top NT on the board who may have been the BPA at the time and took a WR instead is a very fair question. At the time we were stacked at WR (arguably the position of least need) and did not have a good NT. (We still do not.)

It very easily could have turned out that none of Alexander, Floyd and Royal had significant injuries that cost them lots of time and/or regular practice reps. It very easily could have turned out that Brown became the player that we all hoped he would be before his ankle injury. Had those things happened, Allen would have been nothing more than another name on a roster with potential by the end of this season (maybe kind of like Brown was a couple of years ago before his injury).

Naturally, that didn't happen, but there was no way that Telesco, you, me or anyone else could have known that at the time. So the question from an "at the time of the draft" perspective is not silly at all. It is a very fair question.

Of course, when the injuries happened and Allen got his chance, he was outstanding. So, in retrospect it worked out perfectly. As I said, I have no complaints (save maybe the possibility that I didn't even consider myself at the time of the draft of trading back in to get Jenkins, which I do not fault Telesco at all for not doing because I do not like to trade up as a general proposition).

I definitely agree with you that we could benefit from further additions at both positions. I like Benjamin, but think he may not be worth the #25 pick. He looks like he would be a heck of a complement to Allen. If we landed a player or two like him, we may be able to get away from Alexander, who I really like, but have come to accept is a major injury risk. Our NT position is just a mess right now. Lissemore is a reserve NT, nothing more. We do not have a legitimate starting NT.

[Beerman]

We didn't have a hole at NT at this point last season. Cam Thomas was the presumed starter and supposed to step up finally. Obviously it didn't happen. They had to give him the opportunity to see if he could be the guy.

[blueman]

Always liked the idea of Cam in the DE rotation. But not sure that "fixes" things for him, his issue seems to be motivation more than anything. He's got the tools and talks the talk, but he gets pushed around so easily, like maybe NT isn't really his position.

Add another FA NT, maybe draft somebody if a talent falls to us (and the coaching staff think Geathers/Jeridou ain't gonna get there either).

[Boltx]

Defense.

[Yubaking]

We didn't have a hole at NT at this point last season. Cam Thomas was the presumed starter and supposed to step up finally. Obviously it didn't happen. They had to give him the opportunity to see if he could be the guy.

We had a body there named Cam, but there was plenty of reason to believe that he was not going to be the guy even before the season began. We did not keep the proven guy--Franklin. I considered there to be a hole all along at NT (which was why I wanted us to keep Franklin and draft Jenkins in the first place). Now we know for sure that Cam is not the guy and that we have a hole at NT (in case we weren't sure about that already).

[Beerman]

We had a body there named Cam, but there was plenty of reason to believe that he was not going to be the guy even before the season began. We did not keep the proven guy--Franklin. I considered there to be a hole all along at NT (which was why I wanted us to keep Franklin and draft Jenkins in the first place). Now we know for sure that Cam is not the guy and that we have a hole at NT (in case we weren't sure about that already).

Hindsight is great. Going into the season there were plenty of reasons to think he would be able to succeed. Like I mentioned before, the team had a ridiculous amount of players that they just didn't know about because the previous regime never played young players. Now they have a firm grasp on the entire roster and can plan accordingly.

They were also able to hopefully develop Geathers over the year that he was on the roster, which is exactly the type of player development I hope they continue to have long term success. It paid off with a guy like Addae this season. It has paid off in previous years with guys like Gates/Dielman. They need to continue to litter the roster with youth and develop cheap, controllable talent. That's how you build depth.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Um im I alone in thinking that we are comparing a zippo lighter to a pack of matches?

Allen once given the oppertunity had a top ten? Rookie season, vs a third round potential NT that did what exactly this year?

At that point in the draft Allen had yhe highest carreier potetial but your draft nics were only looking a year out, not five or ten..

[blahblahblah]

Stop being unreasonable guys.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Unfortunately, at least one poster is not distinguishing between what things looked like at the time of the draft and what they look like now.

At the time of the draft, Allen looked like a steal. After the season, Allen looks like a steal. Probably more of one given how quickly he developed.

But you do have one point: I don't place as much emphasis on draftniks' rankings as you do. As poor as your predictive track record was, it's astonishing how poor the retrospective version is. In sum it seems to be "I wish we had taken the lesser player because he plays a position I deem to be more valuable."