Ted Wells Report

[bonehead]

There are all kinds of different workplaces. I certainly do not expect the same kind of behavior/language in a locker room as I do in a courtroom.

I understand that there are different work environments but this is a "hostile" environment....it shouldn't be tolerated and it shouldn't have gotten this far.

Here's an example:

If I am a Manager at a Restaurant and I grab the waitresses butts and rub up against the hostesses, that's harrassment and I should probably get fired or at least get suspended and forced to take a class or get therapy

Now if I'm the manager of a Strip Club and I'm grabbing the dancers and rubbing up on the bar maids some people might say well that's different because of the environment.....I see no difference...I should be terminated.

[Beerman]

There are all kinds of different workplaces. I certainly do not expect the same kind of behavior/language in a locker room as I do in a courtroom.

That is exactly my point.

[thelightningwill]

I understand that there are different work environments but this is a "hostile" environment....it shouldn't be tolerated and it shouldn't have gotten this far.

Here's an example:

If I am a Manager at a Restaurant and I grab the waitresses butts and rub up against the hostesses, that's harrassment and I should probably get fired or at least get suspended and forced to take a class or get therapy

Now if I'm the manager of a Strip Club and I'm grabbing the dancers and rubbing up on the bar maids some people might say well that's different because of the environment.....I see no difference...I should be terminated.

I'm looking for Sarah Connor.

[Yubaking]

I don't think the burden should have fallen on Martin to exhaust the "potential" remedies. This was a hostile work environment.....

and you just cannot state that Incognito was "possibly" a sick demented fuck...and then posit that Martin should have gone to him for a heart to heart about the current situation....

My comment was with an eye toward what might have actually helped Martin in his situation. I do think punching the bully in the face can be helpful and also think that getting the assistance of the bully's boss can be helpful. Apparently, Martin did not do these things.

From a legal standpoint, I can only discuss my understanding of California law, which may differ from Florida law.

If the law is the same in both states, then to establish the abusive work environment claim, Martin needs to show 1) that the conduct was of a legally recognized improper nature, 2) that the conduct was unwelcome, and 3) the conduct was sufficiently severe or pervasive so as to alter the conditions of Martin's employment and create a hostile work environment. Further, the employer is only responsible if it knew or should have known about the events that were transpiring and the effect of the events on Martin and failed to take reasonable steps to correct the problem.

I think that is where Martin's conduct in failing to exhaust his remedies may be problematic. As I understand the facts, it isn't that Martin failed to exhaust all potential remedies, but rather that he did not exhaust any potential remedies before he left the team.

There is a concept commonly referred to as "locker room humor". That name did not develop for no reason. It developed because in locker rooms, it is commonplace, even normal for there to be exchanges involving a good deal of vulgarity. Since that is what is normal or at least not uncommon and players do not typically go running home to mommy and daddy from those settings, I do not think that it is reasonable for football organizations to assume that crude discussions, even if the team were aware of all of them, would constitute a hostile work environment. Frankly, I think that notion is ridiculous and completely contrary to common experience.

As a result, I do think it is incumbent upon Martin to report the conduct that he finds objectionable to the club in a situation in which the club would not otherwise be reasonably expected to be aware of it. Otherwise, the club may have no idea that there is a problem until its player suddenly just walks away one day. Once the conduct has been adequately reported, then I think the burden shifts to the club to do something about it. If they do not, there is a potentially actionable hostile work environment.

As it is, I think Martin failed to mitigate any damages he may have sustained by apparently doing nothing to resolve the problem prior to leaving the team. If we ever had a player that pulled this crap that Martin is pulling, I would be furious with him.

[Yubaking]

[/B]
That is exactly my point.

Yes, but you seem to think that behavior/language in all work environments should be the same. I do not. There are many different kinds of people all throughout society. I once played on a softball team with a guy whose life experience was with manual labor jobs. He was a great guy, but he couldn't utter a sentence without resorting to language that would get me sanctioned in a courtroom before I had even completed my sentence. That was what was customary in his work. Different standards apply in my work. I think the law should leave it alone because I hate it when the government through its laws tries to interfere with every little area of people's lives. Sometimes it is good lawmaking to leave something alone.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I agree to a certain extent but I also believe that bullies select their victims..they know who they can push around....I'm sure there are some 190 pound DB's out there that Incognito wouldn't talk shit to because they would break his face by the third word..

I agree. I'm not defending Incognito's actions. Nor those of Jerry and Pouncey or the coach. I'm just saying it's not an easy thing to sort out. I think the issue goes beyond one individual.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

One aspect that many people gloss over is that a NFL locker room is a workplace. It needs to start being treated like one. It needs to start at the top with Goodell if they want to stop all this negative publicity that has been coming out. Kinda surprised that even the trainer was taking that type of abuse. That's fucked up.

I concur but with all due respect, that's kind of a new concept for the NFL. Does that mean the league has been a laggard on stuff like this? Absolutely. The level of accountability hasn't always been there. But now, with cameras all over the place, social media, popularity of the game bringing constant scrutiny...they're going to have to police this stuff better. Just like the concussion stuff, it will have an impact on the on-field product.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I don't think the burden should have fallen on Martin to exhaust the "potential" remedies. This was a hostile work environment.....

and you just cannot state that Incognito was "possibly" a sick demented fuck...and then posit that Martin should have gone to him for a heart to heart about the current situation....

You're right, it was hostile. But it was not uniquely hostile except for the fact that Martin wasn't up for playing along. This couldn't have been the first time Martin encountered this kind of talk. It wouldn't be for me. It wouldn't be for most of the men I know. The variable at play here is that Martin had emotional issues and that Incognito either didn't comprehend that or that he didn't understand what impact that could have. He was just doing what he probably always did...and with no repercussions for his whole career. Again, not to absolve him of blame or to suggest he's anything other than a huge dick, but hey man, go to the gym with your buddies and tell me that someone doesn't say shit like this to you.

[thelightningwill]

You're right, it was hostile. But it was not uniquely hostile except for the fact that Martin wasn't up for playing along. This couldn't have been the first time Martin encountered this kind of talk. It wouldn't be for me. It wouldn't be for most of the men I know. The variable at play here is that Martin had emotional issues and that Incognito either didn't comprehend that or that he didn't understand what impact that could have. He was just doing what he probably always did...and with no repercussions for his whole career. Again, not to absolve him of blame or to suggest he's anything other than a huge dick, but hey man, go to the gym with your buddies and tell me that someone doesn't say shit like this to you.

Back before I was a fatty, I used to go to the gym with my buddies. Nobody ever touched me inproperly or repeatedly threw out racial slurs to minorities or said anything inapprorpriate about my mom or sister.
You might want to get some new gym partners.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Back before I was a fatty, I used to go to the gym with my buddies. Nobody ever touched me inproperly or repeatedly threw out racial slurs to minorities or said anything inapprorpriate about my mom or sister.
You might want to get some new gym partners.

Then you live in a completely different male culture than I do. I've never had anyone touch me improperly. But if you've never heard a mom joke, then yeah, that's a completely different culture than I have lived in.

[Mister Hoarse]

Time to smoke this fattys

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Time to smoke this fattys

Time to chew dis cheebas...