Clary, why is he still here???

[oneinchpunch]

I think he meny you Ridiculed Freeney among others...

Is the discussion what PFF's grades are and what they are based on or what individual posters think of a stat? Two different subject matters. Here I thought the discussion was Clary and how he was graded.

And my beef with the hurries was the discussion about hurries that had no negative effect on the play, that hurries were as good as sacks and the discussion that Freeney was inspiring other pass rushers to get hurries. But thats not really the point of the thread is it?

[blahblahblah]

Is the discussion what PFF's grades are and what they are based on or what individual posters think of a stat? Two different subject matters. Here I thought the discussion was Clary and how he was graded.

And my beef with the hurries was the discussion about hurries that had no negative effect on the play, that hurries were as good as sacks and the discussion that Freeney was inspiring other pass rushers to get hurries. But thats not really the point of the thread is it?

I think it is in regards to inconsistent usage of the PFF grades. Several here, including yuba if I remember correctly, discounted PFF's high grades of Freeney. If PFF's grades of Freeney didn't count then why is PFF the authority on Clary now?

Of course, I could just be remembering it wrong.

[sandiego17]

Did they ridicule Freeney as well?

Not the 'they' you quote, but rather some of the posters involved in this debate. Seems that some PFF stats have meaning and others don't based on personal biases towards the players involved. Yuba uses PFF as a basis to bash Clary and ignores it in bashing Freeney.

[sandiego17]

I think it is in regards to inconsistent usage of the PFF grades. Several here, including yuba if I remember correctly, discounted PFF's high grades of Freeney. If PFF's grades of Freeney didn't count then why is PFF the authority on Clary now?

Of course, I could just be remembering it wrong.

No, you didn't misremember.

[Steve]

OIP, I have said this countless times, but what did YOU think?

I have already said, that if you don't believe the PFF you should watch the game, and I did. when I graded him, I got a very different grade. And i have gotten much higher grades for the games I have gone back and watched again. What did you see?

The big thing that kills PFF credibility, is there is no guide to how they come up with their grades. They claim to have a 30 page manual and train their observers for a minimum of 6 months, yet they won't share it. They claim to have summaries that go play by play, but they don't share that either. All you get is the boiled down,summary, and there is never a hope of rectifying it.

Someone else pointed out, a that it is probably as simple as what they award to what grade. Clary doesn't drive guys off the line, that is not what zone blocking does. The point is not to flatten the other team, it is to get the DL and LB moving, then get them out of position and seal them off, leaving a cutback lane. But if the PFF guys think that the Chargers coaches are disappointed, they have never listened to coaching points of zone blocking coaches, because that is not what they preach. They know what is important, and PFF doesn't. So the only thing we are left with is that PFF is counting the wrong stuff, which is what a lot of people are saying.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/pro-football-focus-gaining-attention-for-its-ranki/nbLPG/

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/3/19/4124950/bengals-head-coach-marvin-lewis-not-a-fan-of-pro-football-focus

http://bloggingthebeast.com/2011/05/26/a-rebuttal-to-pro-football-focus-analysis-of-desean-jacksons-game/

http://www.trackingvinceyoung.com/2011/08/15/vince-young-critics-beware-pro-football-focus-new-passer-rating-has-young-as-3-for-2010/

But citing the same source as the bad grade is not proof. It is kind of like stuttering, which seems to be the limits of your contribution to this board. And that's just sad.

[oneinchpunch]

But citing the same source as the bad grade is not proof. It is kind of like stuttering, which seems to be the limits of your contribution to this board. And that's just sad.

I have always stated that PFF is not the end all be all. In fact Ive argued against using them in that way. but they do provide one informed point of view and often one of the only ones for some games and players in those games. But again they are just one source.

I do think that their OL and DL grades are very strong but find them to be poor DB evaluators. Mostly because I think it is extremely difficult to grade DBs especially in the various zones.

[Beerman]

I don't really give a shit about grades to be honest (they are a too to evaluate though). What really sticks out to me is running to the right in general and the numbers we generated in actual production stats that Football Outsiders collects.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

It's painfully obvious we weren't very effective when we ran to the right for whatever reason. We were the top rushing team however when we ran left (which was clearly evidenced when we all watched the games). So the real question is how do we improve that deficiency in our rushing attack. It could simply just improve with both Clary and Fluker now having a full year of experience under them.

[sandiego17]

I have always stated that PFF is not the end all be all. In fact Ive argued against using them in that way. but they do provide one informed point of view and often one of the only ones for some games and players in those games. But again they are just one source.

Completely agree. I find the grades interesting, but definitely not the end all and be all.

However, I do find it very funny when PFF is used in an argument to support a position, but completely ignored (and even ridiculed) when PFF doesn't support a position, by the same person, like with Clary and Freeney.

[blueman]

Somebody should ask Watt about that game.

[Panama]

Somebody should ask Watt about that game.

Ask Who?

[thelightningwill]

Ask Who?

Watt's on second.

[Steve]

I have always stated that PFF is not the end all be all. In fact Ive argued against using them in that way. but they do provide one informed point of view and often one of the only ones for some games and players in those games. But again they are just one source.

I do think that their OL and DL grades are very strong but find them to be poor DB evaluators. Mostly because I think it is extremely difficult to grade DBs especially in the various zones.

Not really an informed. A misinformed (at least for OL), which is why I am surprised you don't like them more.

As far as Watt went with his grade in the Houston game, he made his best plays playing on the defensive right (offensive left) side. So, a lot of his best plays don't have anything to do with Clary, since he wouldn't have had the assignment. And since Watt also lines up outside, even the plays on the defensive left side would not necessarily be plays where he would be blocked by Clary.