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[Ghost of Quacksaw]

Too funny! This is Raider Fan's brave attempt at keeping a stiff upper lip! It's no coincidence that the crossing swords are going through Raider man's neck...

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[dmac_bolt]

Wrong, kind sir, but our playoff position could still improve (as if three teams tie with 11 wins, the Chargers get the 5th seed) although the Chargers can no longer fall out of contention. This is fun and I see nothing but upside everywhere.

I was being tongue in cheek literal, having a little fun. The mood in this joint shifted dramatically last night, it is fun in here again mostly and I don’t mean to bring anyone down.

it sounded funny in my head. Inside voice / outside voice thing again.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

More from Raider Fan:

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[dmac_bolt]

It must have entered Staley's head that he, personally, is better off without Derwin, and running this style of defense.
His reputation as a defensive coordinator was circling down the toilet drain a few weeks ago.

Having to placate Derwin, and gain the locker room might no longer be a necessary choice.

I don’t understand why so many folks here keep posting that Staley was placating Derwin at the cost of a worse defense? I see what all saw that Staley made adjustments that helped ALOT and they do coincide with a point that Derwin was out. There are no dots connecting the adjustments to Derwin though. Staley was seeing teams were too effective at attacking the soft cover2 underneath and then gaining significant YAC. He tightened up coverages, added more man and press in some circumstances, etc. He was doing the same at the start yesterday with Derwin in the game, it wasn’t like a separate design for with vs without Derwin. They were playing great with Derwin in.

How is everyone leaping to not just that the defense is better without DJ, which to me is just wrong, to Staley intentionally was harming the overall defense because he had to placate Derwin … what … he is afraid of Derwin? Really? So afraid he’d field a shit defense and risk his entire reputation and career?

its a weird conspiracy theory. If folks can’t see Derwin is an elite player, i don’t know what to say. He is. He had an acrobatic interception, he pressured Foles into one of the other INTs, he sets the tone with his rapid closing and hits, all in just the first half. he’s a very rare athlete able to play SS, FS, LB and a (very) light edge rusher and that makes him a problem? He’s one of the top 3 players on our defense, thats if you’d want to include Mack and Bosa in that equation - I personally don’t care which order they are placed in, all three are elite.

It is crazy talk to think the defense will be better without him long term and its completely crazy to think Staley was fucking up the entire defense just so Derwin would be “placated”. The problems with the D earlier in the season were not a “Derwin problem”.

[dmac_bolt]

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know when Payton's contract with the Saints "expires"?

My guess is, Payton is perfectly content to sit out until or unless an opportunity he considers "ideal" comes down the pike.

'Ideal' is a pretty high standard, and Denver certainly doesn't qualify.

I *get* that, for Payton, coaching the Chargers would check at least *most* of the boxes for satisfying his definition of 'ideal'.

That doesn't mean that the HC job with the Chargers is available though. And here's an angle that I haven't seen anyone bring up:

If the Chargers were to fire Staley, there would be an abrupt shift in culture. The implied message from management to the players would sound something like this--

"You know that whole 'Our Way' thing? It was bullshit. We asked you to believe it, and now we've changed our minds. We're moving on."

How do you think that vibe would sit with an entire roster of players?!?

Because it *wasn't* bullshit. Under Staley's leadership, the players unbelievably, inexplicably hung tough in ridiculously difficult circumstances and managed to accomplish the most important goal of the Regular Season-- To reach the post-season. He didn't accomplish that without building a culture of trust.

IMO, it would be a massive error to replace Brandon Staley, with Sean Payton or anybody else. You don't kick the kids' mom out of the house, and bring in a new woman to be mom the next week, and expect that the kids aren't going to be negatively impacted by it, in a big way.

I was wondering if the contract clock is suspended, like if he had 2 yrs left when he retired, that 2 yrs just sits there forever if he ever wants to come back to the NFL and he still owes them 2 yrs before he is free to sell his service elsewhere. i don’t konw if it does or not.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Very telling...

[richpjr]

I don’t understand why so many folks here keep posting that Staley was placating Derwin at the cost of a worse defense?

There are only a couple here with this very weird notion that subtracting a top 3 safety in the league somehow makes the D better.

[jaguarmanftype]

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know when Payton's contract with the Saints "expires"?

My guess is, Payton is perfectly content to sit out until or unless an opportunity he considers "ideal" comes down the pike.

'Ideal' is a pretty high standard, and Denver certainly doesn't qualify.

I *get* that, for Payton, coaching the Chargers would check at least *most* of the boxes for satisfying his definition of 'ideal'.

That doesn't mean that the HC job with the Chargers is available though. And here's an angle that I haven't seen anyone bring up:

If the Chargers were to fire Staley, there would be an abrupt shift in culture. The implied message from management to the players would sound something like this--

"You know that whole 'Our Way' thing? It was bullshit. We asked you to believe it, and now we've changed our minds. We're moving on."

How do you think that vibe would sit with an entire roster of players?!?

Because it *wasn't* bullshit. Under Staley's leadership, the players unbelievably, inexplicably hung tough in ridiculously difficult circumstances and managed to accomplish the most important goal of the Regular Season-- To reach the post-season. He didn't accomplish that without building a culture of trust.

IMO, it would be a massive error to replace Brandon Staley, with Sean Payton or anybody else. You don't kick the kids' mom out of the house, and bring in a new woman to be mom the next week, and expect that the kids aren't going to be negatively impacted by it, in a big way.

I believe his contract expires in 2024. As for the rest, I'm not really a proponent of Sean Payton as much as others, and it's doubtful the Spanos' relinquish as much control as Payton desires, not to mention entertain the pay he will command.

As it relates to Staley, I've been a proponent of Staley since the head coaching candidate search days on TPB stating even before his hiring that he may become the best coach in Chargers history, but I warned there would be growing pains with some decisions that would drive us all collectively to wit's end -- bringing in high-cost free agents and fostering an over-reliance on said players over developing talent, creating game plans and running schemes that utilize some of our talent to their detriment and not utilizing the best 11 on the field, Lombardi, etc. All of these, I believe, he will or is starting to overcome -- as an aside and in reference to the first point in particular, you can ask Andy Reid why he got fired from Philly after assembling a "Dream Team" of high-class free agents in 2012 and why that isn't always effective.

In any event, in my opinion, it was either Harbaugh or him, and he was more a long term prospect with Harbaugh being a much more short term stint with Staley likely having a significantly better body of work over a longer timeline.

[Fouts2herbert]

I wish someone would present this capital that landing Payton would require from the Saints in compensation. I asked, specifically, this exact question 'what would it cost' before and got NO ANSWERS.

Whatever it is, to land Sean Payton when he (reportedly) has focused on Arizona and LA Chargers as franchises he is interested in, I would gladly pay whatever this mysterious sum is. 1,000 times over.

These deals are rare but the cost has been two #1s in the past, I want to say jon gruden cost that, maybe it was someone else, not 100% sure, but the bar has been set high…the saints have supposedly leaked that it’s not going to be cheap to buy his contract…

[jaguarmanftype]

I don’t understand why so many folks here keep posting that Staley was placating Derwin at the cost of a worse defense? I see what all saw that Staley made adjustments that helped ALOT and they do coincide with a point that Derwin was out. There are no dots connecting the adjustments to Derwin though. Staley was seeing teams were too effective at attacking the soft cover2 underneath and then gaining significant YAC. He tightened up coverages, added more man and press in some circumstances, etc. He was doing the same at the start yesterday with Derwin in the game, it wasn’t like a separate design for with vs without Derwin. They were playing great with Derwin in.

How is everyone leaping to not just that the defense is better without DJ, which to me is just wrong, to Staley intentionally was harming the overall defense because he had to placate Derwin … what … he is afraid of Derwin? Really? So afraid he’d field a shit defense and risk his entire reputation and career?

its a weird conspiracy theory. If folks can’t see Derwin is an elite player, i don’t know what to say. He is. He had an acrobatic interception, he pressured Foles into one of the other INTs, he sets the tone with his rapid closing and hits, all in just the first half. he’s a very rare athlete able to play SS, FS, LB and a (very) light edge rusher and that makes him a problem? He’s one of the top 3 players on our defense, thats if you’d want to include Mack and Bosa in that equation - I personally don’t care which order they are placed in, all three are elite.

It is crazy talk to think the defense will be better without him long term and its completely crazy to think Staley was fucking up the entire defense just so Derwin would be “placated”. The problems with the D earlier in the season were not a “Derwin problem”.

No one will argue that Derwin isn't an elite talent, or that he is somehow worse than Alohi Gilman in comparison. The argument surrounding Staley placating Derwin is pure innuendo. The only semi-logical argument to that effect that one can make would be that Staley may feel pressure from ownership and the front office to maximize the utilization of Derwin in order to maximize his contract dollars and cap hit, but that is runaway speculation that may or may not hold any merit. My opinion is that Staley believes that running his scheme the way he prefers is only effective with Derwin starting in the rotation and running it on the field in real-time. My argument with that is that running the defense through Derwin has led to an over-reliance on his skillset, and an over-complexity in scheme to disguise him pre-snap causing a deterioration in performance within other defensive units due to misallocation of personnel, improper positioning/alignment, misutilization of player skill sets, etc. -- and this may not even be opinion because the defensive stats bare that out for most of this year and even dating back to last year, particularly as it relates to linebacker and secondary unit performance.

In my opinion, the most effective way to utilize Derwin is how Gus Bradley deployed him most effectively in his rookie year -- as an in-the-box, on-the-line roving safety that can blitz and get pressure as a Dline pass rusher while helping in run support and occasionally dropping into zone coverage -- and continue to let the secondary and linebackers play the assignments they have been playing for this 3-week stretch. We all know that Derwin can do it all, he can cover slot, he can cover TEs, cover deep, play in the box and on the line as a D-lineman -- even in his rookie year, we had game plans where he was almost exclusively in coverage or acting as a pass rusher, but that was game to game depending on the opponent played -- but I'd prefer that he didn't have so many roles in-game so that we can utilize where he is most effective without negating the performance and execution of the other units and the way they have played in this 3-game stretch without him.

By the way, when Derwin was starting in the early drives, we did give up some yards underneath rushing and passing while we played soft shell. The secondary locked it down when Derwin went out because more than likely Staley didn't feel comfortable running it without Derwin in making adjustments pre-snap and executing his assignment.

As it relates to Bosa, he won't necessitate a schematic change, just a rotational one. His role is defined unlike Derwin's so the defensive line won't see much adjustment other than Van Noy and Rumph would be used more rotationally, while more than likely seeing an even more improved pass rush depending on how healthy Bosa is. If Johnson were able to return, I'd argue that would cause an adjustment -- and not necessarily one that benefits the interior line play -- as we'd probably have Fehoko looking on the outside in mostly due to contractual considerations, and I'd argue him being a stalwart NT has improved the interior play because of the change in alignment for SJD and Fehoko's own production.

We can probably argue that we have (or are very close to having) the best 11 men on the field defensively starting for us, and that may come as a shock considering there are several names playing considerably important roles who appeared to be on the out with the team/organization, on the outside looking in or not even a consideration for the 53-man roster after our free agent signing frenzy.

[C’monchargers]

For what it’s worth, its from when the patriots traded for Bill Bilichick from the jets.

”If Bill Belichick accepts and assumes a position with the New England Patriots, and reports to work on or before Monday, January 31, 2000 then, the New York Jets trade to the New England Patriots their 5th round pick in the 2001 annual NFL selection draft, and their 7th round pick in the 2002 annual NFL selection draft, and the New England Patriots trade their 1st round pick in the 2000 annual NFL selection draft (16th overall), their 4th pick in the 2001 annual NFL selection draft, and their 7th round pick in the 2001 annual NFL selection draft.”

[Lone Bolt]

No one will argue that Derwin isn't an elite talent, or that he is somehow worse than Alohi Gilman in comparison. The argument surrounding Staley placating Derwin is pure innuendo. The only semi-logical argument to that effect that one can make would be that Staley may feel pressure from ownership and the front office to maximize the utilization of Derwin in order to maximize his contract dollars and cap hit, but that is runaway speculation that may or may not hold any merit. My opinion is that Staley believes that running his scheme the way he prefers is only effective with Derwin starting in the rotation and running it on the field in real-time. My argument with that is that running the defense through Derwin has led to an over-reliance on his skillset, and an over-complexity in scheme to disguise him pre-snap causing a deterioration in performance within other defensive units due to misallocation of personnel, improper positioning/alignment, misutilization of player skill sets, etc. -- and this may not even be opinion because the defensive stats bare that out for most of this year and even dating back to last year, particularly as it relates to linebacker and secondary unit performance.

In my opinion, the most effective way to utilize Derwin is how Gus Bradley deployed him most effectively in his rookie year -- as an in-the-box, on-the-line roving safety that can blitz and get pressure as a Dline pass rusher while helping in run support and occasionally dropping into zone coverage -- and continue to let the secondary and linebackers play the assignments they have been playing for this 3-week stretch. We all know that Derwin can do it all, he can cover slot, he can cover TEs, cover deep, play in the box and on the line as a D-lineman -- even in his rookie year, we had game plans where he was almost exclusively in coverage or acting as a pass rusher, but that was game to game depending on the opponent played -- but I'd prefer that he didn't have so many roles in-game so that we can utilize where he is most effective without negating the performance and execution of the other units and the way they have played in this 3-game stretch without him.

By the way, when Derwin was starting in the early drives, we did give up some yards underneath rushing and passing while we played soft shell. The secondary locked it down when Derwin went out because more than likely Staley didn't feel comfortable running it without Derwin in making adjustments pre-snap and executing his assignment.

As it relates to Bosa, he won't necessitate a schematic change, just a rotational one. His role is defined unlike Derwin's so the defensive line won't see much adjustment other than Van Noy and Rumph would be used more rotationally, while more than likely seeing an even more improved pass rush depending on how healthy Bosa is. If Johnson were able to return, I'd argue that would cause an adjustment -- and not necessarily one that benefits the interior line play -- as we'd probably have Fehoko looking on the outside in mostly due to contractual considerations, and I'd argue him being a stalwart NT has improved the interior play because of the change in alignment for SJD and Fehoko's own production.

We can probably argue that we have (or are very close to having) the best 11 men on the field defensively starting for us, and that may come as a shock considering there are several names playing considerably important roles who appeared to be on the out with the team/organization, on the outside looking in or not even a consideration for the 53-man roster after our free agent signing frenzy.

Fine post, if I don't buy into it completely....but clear points. I lean towards the possibility that the players just finally are figuring it out...but I am a fan of simplifying Derwin"s role, with occasional shake ups/disguises in coverages, provided we can keep a high level of talent around him in the secondary...as well as an effective and healthy pass rush...we will see how the future pans out.