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[Boltnut]

Look at my prospect rankings from 2018 it will show you without the hindsight factor.
I see no change in Brown’s play as a pro in the sample I’ve looked at which is not in depth.

JJones is a key piece of our Dline rotation.
Are you expecting him to get back up to 310#-320# from his current body reshaping to 290#?
Excellent size, skillset, and combo of run/pass traits to excel @ 4I/3T.

I still doubt him. I think he is hot garbage. Wait and see what scheme he gets put into when he leave the blackbirds.

I’ve been wrong many many times. If we sign Brown, I’ll take my lumps if he proves me wrong.

Again... I'm not advocating signing Brown.

Justin Jones has 1.5 sacks in his NFL career (3 years). He's not a pass rusher... he's a space eater. @290 @310 I don't care. Jerry Tillery is hot garbage... and he's got 5 sacks. He's your 4i. There will be a rotation either way. Everyone along the DL is rotational except Bosa.
@#83 @$900,000/year... Brown was a steal. Period.

Again... I'm not advocating trading/signing Brown.

[like54ninjas]

Again... I'm not advocating signing Brown.

Justin Jones has 1.5 sacks in his NFL career (3 years). He's not a pass rusher... he's a space eater. @290 @310 I don't care. Jerry Tillery is hot garbage... and he's got 5 sacks. He's your 4i. There will be a rotation either way. Everyone along the DL is rotational except Bosa.
@#83 @$900,000/year... Brown was a steal. Period.

Again... I'm not advocating trading/signing Brown.

Tillery cannot defend the run at all. He is at best a 3rd down PRS inside or out. He is hot garbage and I said so in my profile of him prior to the 19 draft. Had him ranked as the 97th overall prospect.

[21&500]

Between the two players, I’ll take JJones.
Brown is exceptionally limited athletically with size/length as his only advantage.

I’m with Jolt on PFF ratings as not an ideal indicator of player performance.

why would this matter if he’s already proven effective with his size and length, and I’d add technique and smarts.
I would understand if TT doesn’t want to risk trading valuable assets for him, namely because his sample size at LT may be too small, and there’s a risk he’s just not very good at LT.
But I don’t see why his lack of athleticism would be a concern. Because if he is a legitimate LT, it’ll be because of his length and size you mentioned, and he’ll always have that.

[like54ninjas]

why would this matter if he’s already proven effective with his size and length, and I’d add technique and smarts.
I would understand if TT doesn’t want to risk trading valuable assets for him, namely because his sample size at LT may be too small, and there’s a risk he’s just not very good at LT.
But I don’t see why his lack of athleticism would be a concern. Because if he is a legitimate LT, it’ll be because of his length and size you mentioned, and he’ll always have that.

I suppose I’m biased n my opinion of Z2.
When I watch him I do not see a great NFL OT. He plays in a gimmick offense where his considerable limitation are masked. 1 on 1 on an island against better pass rushers he gets exposed. He cannot make these type blocks needed scoop, fold, pulls, outside screen, or hit 2nd/3rd level targets consistently. He is not a great power player either.

He is just a huge human. Which of course is your point.

[21&500]

I suppose I’m biased n my opinion of Z2.
When I watch him I do not see a great NFL OT. He plays in a gimmick offense where his considerable limitation are masked. 1 on 1 on an island against better pass rushers he gets exposed. He cannot make these type blocks needed scoop, fold, pulls, outside screen, or hit 2nd/3rd level targets consistently. He is not a great power player either.

He is just a huge human. Which of course is your point.

If this is true then that’s a valid reason to stay away.
I always figured the opposite was true but end of the day I’ll trust TT and company to assess for fit, I suspect news will leak if we have interest or not.
wait and see mode I guess

I will say this, OBJs lack of athleticism isn’t ideal for me.
my personal preference is to generally favor athleticism at OT over strength because I figure Herbert can much better evade strong bullrush passrushers beating OTs than speed guy.
Having athleticism outside helps get them in position to mirror speed passrushers and gives Herbert angles to improvise

[Bolt4Knob]

If this is true then that’s a valid reason to stay away.
I always figured the opposite was true but end of the day I’ll trust TT and company to assess for fit, I suspect news will leak if we have interest or not.
wait and see mode I guess

I will say this, OBJs lack of athleticism isn’t ideal for me.
my personal preference is to generally favor athleticism at OT over strength because I figure Herbert can much better evade strong bullrush passrushers beating OTs than speed guy.
Having athleticism outside helps get them in position to mirror speed passrushers and gives Herbert angles to improvise

AFter the hype of the first news of him wanting to play LT and he might be on the market - I bought the hype and was in

After some further thought - I think it would take a lot to sign him and it would take some assets to get him. Stay the course, take your OT at 13; keep MW (just sign him longer term - I doubt with the market he will cost more than like 48/4 -- give him enough guaranteed) and have your draft picks.

[Boltnut]

Who has better movement skills Z2 or Faalele?

Z2... hands down.

I can show you multiple instances of OBJ pulling from LT (both college and pro). Maybe you can show me Faalele doing the same at Minnesota...?
Rarely does Faalele leave his 2 by 2 yard box. I saw him give up as many pressures/sacks as times he got down field (half of those times ineffectively).
I watched the 2019 Purdue game to hear announcers rave about his NFL size literally 2 seconds after he whiffed on a block and fell flat on his face...
(1:58:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2PKgSXBITo
If there is an impressive game tape you have... please post.

You claim Slater is a guard... but he has impressive tape against a proven NFL pass rusher (Chase Young).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knb3z6N6ur4

[wu-dai clan]

Z2... hands down.

I can show you multiple instances of OBJ pulling from LT (both college and pro). Maybe you can show me Faalele doing the same at Minnesota...?
Rarely does Faalele leave his 2 by 2 yard box. I saw him give up as many pressures/sacks as times he got down field (half of those times ineffectively).
I watched the 2019 Purdue game to hear announcers rave about his NFL size literally 2 seconds after he whiffed on a block and fell flat on his face...
(1:58:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2PKgSXBITo
If there is an impressive game tape you have... please post.

You claim Slater is a guard... but he has impressive tape against a proven NFL pass rusher (Chase Young).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knb3z6N6ur4

So why did the recent rugby playing giant of a man
go back to school ?

Maybe it's not a good football take to compare these two,
so far as their current status goes.

[Boltnut]

So why did the recent rugby playing giant of a man
go back to school ?

Maybe it's not a good football take to compare these two,
so far as their current status goes.

Daniel Faalele sat out 2020 while OBJ started 12 games (10 regular, 2 playoff) at left tackle and earned a Pro Bowl roster spot (his 2nd, I believe).
So much for football takes... next up, Australian Rules Rugby.

[wu-dai clan]

Daniel Faalele sat out 2020 while OBJ started 12 games (10 regular, 2 playoff) at left tackle and earned a Pro Bowl roster spot (his 2nd, I believe).
So much for football takes... next up, Australian Rules Rugby.

There is no comparison, as Faalele is not a finished product.

He could be another Jordan Mailata, or he could be someone special.

I furthermore think it is reasonable to have some questions about OBJ's performance outside of the situation in BAL, or at OLT.

[Boltnut]

There is no comparison, as Faalele is not a finished product.

He could be another Jordan Mailata, or he could be someone special.

I furthermore think it is reasonable to have some questions about OBJ's performance outside of the situation in BAL, or at OLT.

Again... I am not proposing a trade for OBJ.

Faalele could be Jordan; could be someone special, could be Sam Tevi... I suspect he'll be Daniel Faalele.
Let's stick to facts and film study. Waiting for game film suggestions...

[like54ninjas]

Z2... hands down.

I can show you multiple instances of OBJ pulling from LT (both college and pro). Maybe you can show me Faalele doing the same at Minnesota...?
Rarely does Faalele leave his 2 by 2 yard box. I saw him give up as many pressures/sacks as times he got down field (half of those times ineffectively).
I watched the 2019 Purdue game to hear announcers rave about his NFL size literally 2 seconds after he whiffed on a block and fell flat on his face...
(1:58:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2PKgSXBITo
If there is an impressive game tape you have... please post.

You claim Slater is a guard... but he has impressive tape against a proven NFL pass rusher (Chase Young).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knb3z6N6ur4

So does Coy Cronk. He shut down Chase in 2018. Is he worth #13?

I still want to see Faalele improve his mechanics, leverage points, punch location, and football IQ. His tape is limited but shows flashes.
Minnesota didn’t ask him to pull or do they run many screens.
He is never going to be a Sewell type of prospect. I’m not sure he’ll fit what we’re trying to do. I love his power. He is so raw it’s hard to tell what you have. Him returning for 2021 at Minnesota will give us more to tape to delve through.

Here are a couple of clips of flashes that I see.......

Short quick steps with his kickslide in his vertical pass set. Excellent balance. Of course the sheer power he possesses. Freshman season.

2nd to last play where he drives the DE/DT 15 yards downfield then drives him into the turf. Freshman season/2nd year playing football.

Watch the 2018 Quick Lane Bowl vs. GT.

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