Grice cut dl to be added soon

[Beerman]

Hi

[sandiego17]

You compared him to raw rookies and guys who were hurt and guys who don't play the same position. Hes not better than Ingram or Freeney, but they got hurt, he didn't. Simply, just a guy being compensated like just a guy. I don't consider his absence at all important or having an impact. You can pine for him all you want, I've been over it for a while.

[thelightningwill]

You compared him to raw rookies and guys who were hurt and guys who don't play the same position. Hes not better than Ingram or Freeney, but they got hurt, he didn't. Simply, just a guy being compensated like just a guy. I don't consider his absence at all important or having an impact. You can pine for him all you want, I've been over it for a while.

Phillips played better last year than guys who didn't play and other guys who sucked last year. There's something to be said for guys who are just guys who don't miss the majority of the season. Guys who are just guys and are compensated like just guys are better than guys who just suck. And guys who are just guys are better than higher paid, more-skilled players who don't play.
I'm not sure what non just-guy from my list played a position that Phillips couldn't have played, but I'll take your word for it that I included somebody who didn't.

I was on the bandwagon for getting rid of Phillips last year. I never liked his attitude and was happy to not be rooting for him. But, in this one case, it seems to me Yubaking was right about something. And the argument won't die until somebody points out the fact Yubaking was right.

Yubaking, you were right. Now you can stop arguing over this.

[Yubaking]

He's just a guy who will be playing for his third team in three seasons. The last two teams he played for thought so highly of Shaun Jamal Phillips that they didn't even try to resign him despite his extremely cheap price tag. Maybe he's not as much of an impact player as some believe? Sometimes it's just time to move on, no big loss, it's not like TT let Fred Dean go for nothing. It's also interesting how teams personnel decisions are a basis to back up some arguments (Marshall/Nix) but completely ignored for others.

Your failure to consider the circumstances surrounding Phillips is impressive. Telesco most definitely screwed up by not re-signing Phillips. That's a no-brainer and why everyone is ducking thelightningwill's questions. Phillips proved it last year by recording more than double the number of sacks of any OLB on our team. That doesn't make Phillips worse as a player. It just makes Telesco stupid in that instance for not keeping Phillips and then backing up a dump truck full of money for a player that failed to perform as well in Freeney (which he would not have had to have done had he not stripped the OLB cupboard nearly bare in 2013).

I think ExBKR has correctly stated elsewhere that Denver is in "win now" mode. They had extra money and spent it on Ware because he is better than Phillips pure and simple. Barring Ware returning to his very top form, there is no doubt at all that that represents a waste of money for the marginal upgrade that the 2014 version of Ware likely represents over Phillips. But in the desperate Manning is getting old win now mode the cost for any upgrade does not seem to matter to the Broncos. It's not a mind set that I would prefer if I were a Broncos fan as I believe that also represents a mistaken approach and that they could have used their $8M that they could have saved by re-signing Phillips versus bringing in Ware to bring in better talent at other positions. But that is what happened and I think it is nothing against Phillips that he is not as good now as the value of Ware at his peak that the Broncos foolishly (IMO) paid to acquire.

And, for seemingly the 30th time, Phillips has the value of an above average sack artist, nothing more and nothing less. That is what he is and where his value is. His career sack stats tell that story very effectively. When people can get past their biases, they can see that what I am saying is really quite obvious. It is why CBS had Phillips as the 46th ranked FA this year--not an elite player, but an above average one (one spot behind Chris Johnson, one spot ahead of Knowshon Moreno).

Regarding Nix versus Mathews, the situation is entirely different. In another thread, Nix versus Mathews was cast as a roster competition between two signed players. To the extent that is true, the Texans have decided that Mathews lost as they kept Nix and didn't make room on their roster to keep Mathews because they felt he was not important enough to keep. I said that I would accept the Texans' decision absent solid evidence to the contrary, which preseason stats are not without an understanding of how those stats were amassed (given the different levels of the opposition's talent that would not typically exist in a regular season game), which I lack because I did not see the Texans play in the preseason. Therefore, I have no basis to challenge the decision made by the Texans.

Some argued that the team had to keep Nix because he was a third round pick. If so, Mathews still had a chance to beat out a 6th round draft pick signed as a FA for very little money in Powe and Mathews couldn't beat him out either. And, as noted above, he could have caused the team to keep an extra player at DL if his performance had been that good. But it was not and he was cut.

To me, without knowing more, this Mathews situation sounds a little like Law versus T. Williams. The difference is that I actually got to see that competition so I have a basis to conclude that Law was better than T. Williams in the preseason games. But at the end of the day, that competition is about the 5th OLB and the players that are at or are very near the bottom of the 53 man roster.

To me, that's where this Mathews fellow is. Some Texans fans thought he should have made it, but he didn't. That creates the impression of a fringe roster guy, a guy that might be able to find a home in the NFL, but not nothing to write home about as a waiver pickup. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the circumstances surrounding Phillips in recent seasons.

[Yubaking]

You compared him to raw rookies and guys who were hurt and guys who don't play the same position. Hes not better than Ingram or Freeney, but they got hurt, he didn't. Simply, just a guy being compensated like just a guy. I don't consider his absence at all important or having an impact. You can pine for him all you want, I've been over it for a while.

Are you insane?! Phillips was way better than Freeney and Ingram put together last year. Freeney and Ingram were healthy for a total of 8 games last year and registered a combined total of 1.5 sacks. Over a whole season, that amounts to 3 sacks. Phillips put up 10 sacks last year and put up 9.5 the year before with us playing for the same defensive coordinator that was there for Ingram and Freeney last year. The last time the 34-year-old Freeney put up 10 sacks was 4 years ago (2010).

I would favor Phillips to put up more sacks than anyone on our team again this year. Would I rather have Phillips or T. Williams? Anyone answering T. Williams needs help in a big way.

It is difficult to fathom why anyone on this forum wouldn't want a guy that has averaged 9.0 sacks over his last 8 seasons not counting his one injury riddled season three years ago. Barring a huge improvement (Ingram), quick rookie development (Attaochu), or an unexpected return to top form (Freeney), we don't have a 9.0 sack guy on our team right now.

[Beerman]

Your whole argument goes to shit when you bring up Freeney. He was only signed to replace Ingram.

How many times do we need to go over the same damn things? Fucking stupid.

[Yubaking]

Phillips played better last year than guys who didn't play and other guys who sucked last year. There's something to be said for guys who are just guys who don't miss the majority of the season. Guys who are just guys and are compensated like just guys are better than guys who just suck. And guys who are just guys are better than higher paid, more-skilled players who don't play.
I'm not sure what non just-guy from my list played a position that Phillips couldn't have played, but I'll take your word for it that I included somebody who didn't.

I was on the bandwagon for getting rid of Phillips last year. I never liked his attitude and was happy to not be rooting for him. But, in this one case, it seems to me Yubaking was right about something. And the argument won't die until somebody points out the fact Yubaking was right.

Yubaking, you were right. Now you can stop arguing over this.

I am not the one that brought it up in this thread.

[Yubaking]

Your whole argument goes to shit when you bring up Freeney. He was only signed to replace Ingram.

How many times do we need to go over the same damn things? Fucking stupid.

Wrong. My argument is that Telesco left the cupboard bare in terms of anything resembling pass rushers. If Telesco had kept Phillips and Barnes, Freeney never comes to town.

[homeless simpson]

Last year, was Shaun Phillips better than any outside linebacker who played for us? Was he better than Tourek Williams? Was he better than Reggie Walker? Was he better than Larry English? Was he better than Dwight Freeney? Was he better than Melvin Ingram? Was he better than Jarret Johnson? Was he better than Thomas Keiser?

clearly, the bestest OLB on the Bolts is Keiser:

http://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/showthread.php?8435-Best-2013-OLB-on-the-Chargers

[Bolt-O]

Your whole argument goes to shit when you bring up Freeney. He was only signed to replace Ingram.

How many times do we need to go over the same damn things? Fucking stupid.

He'll continue until everyone on the board agrees with his position. Don't encourage the merry-go-round.

[Beerman]

Wrong. My argument is that Telesco left the cupboard bare in terms of anything resembling pass rushers. If Telesco had kept Phillips and Barnes, Freeney never comes to town.

If Ingram never gets hurt, it doesn't matter. Shit happens. Teams have finite rosters and cap room.

Philips was an aging vet coming off his worst year with injury concerns. They chose to move on. Big fucking deal.

[Yubaking]

If Ingram never gets hurt, it doesn't matter. Shit happens. Teams have finite rosters and cap room.

Philips was an aging vet coming off his worst year with injury concerns. They chose to move on. Big fucking deal.

Phillips was 31 then, three years younger than Freeney is now.

Ingram was not going to play every down for us. His quality sub was...nobody, even if he never got injured. (Everyone on this forum is estopped from arguing English was a quality sub.)

Phillips was dirt cheap for what production he provided. He still is.

Phillips was not coming off of his worst year. He had 9.5 sacks for us in 2012. He has not been particularly injury prone over his career, so there should have been no/minimal injury concerns.

Phillips was better than every OLB on our team last year and was so for not that much over the veteran minimum, so yeah, it kind of ended up being a pretty big deal.

Telesco screwed up and while we have made strides this offseason with the addition of Attaochu, we are still looking at having to add more OLBs due not having kept Phillips and Barnes if Freeney, and likely JJ too, are not with us next year. This interferes with our ability to add at other positions too. So, yeah, it matters.