The Problem With OL Coaching Today

[Steve]

The problem is that college coaches use the spread systems to "simplify" their teaching. They simply do not coach OL on the fundamental skills the way the NFL needs them too. So, while college pass rusher, QB and Receivers all benefit from the spread system, the OL doesn't.

Most college teams prefer "vertical set technique" while NFL teams prefer "kick stepping".

Vertical Set - backpedal fast, get as much depth, then hope that you can play lower than the DL who is now upright. It kinda resembles running for your life.

http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...tical-set.html

Kick Step - play the angles and engage the DL early. Then when you have thwarted the move, he is stalemated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTWMa8UfPQ

Jim McNally, one of the early technician type OL coaches in football.

In the NFL, if the D plays press coverage, then the QB has to wait for the WR to get open, NFL caliber pass rushers have the OL back in the QB face or the QB is running for their life. Penetration kills offensive football, and the vertical set is ALLOWING the D to penetrate. A lot of staple college plays simply don't work well in the NFL because guys are too big and too fast, and college rely a LOT on just putting super athletic and fast guys in space. Which of course is the point of spreading everyone out in the first place, so that you wouldn't have to block them.

College coaches will counter that running backwards is a lot easier to teach and anyone can do it. If that sounds suspicious, then you are probably right. It works well enough in college, because for the most part most college players aren't very good athletes.

None of this it to minimize the problems the Chargers have on the OL. I put this thread together because so many people seem to minimize the issues with just going out and trying to draft the fixes, but that may not work. So many college teams play spread that you are basically being forced to teach your OL from scratch.

Seattle even went so far as to stop drafting OL. They would draft former college DL who were not going to be able to make the step up to being pro DL, and were good athletes, and then Tom Cable would simply train them to be OL instead. He felt like he was basically starting from scratch anyway, although he wasn't particularly successful at developing either.

[21&500]

this is why it makes more sense to me to scout for athletic traits and not necessarily “good college OL players” because they’re essentially playing a different position from what they’ll be asked in the pros.
I think Pipkins is a good example of this
while we can all agree that we haven’t liked the results as of yet, I still believe in the approach.
draft for value at OL, all these kids needs work.

what I mean is that all our failures is completely Rivers’ fault
100%
woops

[like54ninjas]

this is why it makes more sense to me to scout for athletic traits and not necessarily “good college OL players” because they’re essentially playing a different position from what they’ll be asked in the pros.
I think Pipkins is a good example of this
while we can all agree that we haven’t liked the results as of yet, I still believe in the approach.
draft for value at OL, all these kids needs work.

what I mean is that all our failures is completely Rivers’ fault
100%
woops

Traits are good.
Ability to consistently improve applying those traits Y2Y/throughout seasons, physical/mental growth displayed, motor, making in game adjustments to win his individual matchups, and shear natural talent to make college players look like small children are what I like to see from prospect’s game tapes.
My favorite games to breakdown a prospect are the games directly after a poor performance. Shows you something about his mental makeup.

Concentrating on programs that run at least some pro style formations, blocking concepts, plays out of 3-point stances, etc. would make some sense.

[almailva]

None of this it to minimize the problems the Chargers have on the OL. I put this thread together because so many people seem to minimize the issues with just going out and trying to draft the fixes, but that may not work. So many college teams play spread that you are basically being forced to teach your OL from scratch.

Seattle even went so far as to stop drafting OL. They would draft former college DL who were not going to be able to make the step up to being pro DL, and were good athletes, and then Tom Cable would simply train them to be OL instead. He felt like he was basically starting from scratch anyway, although he wasn't particularly successful at developing either.

so, do you think Campen could improve our oline with the guys we have?

usually when I search for oline prospects try to look at the footwork not only at the power or the size, especially now with a lot of zone blocking systems

[wu-dai clan]

Bad habits and improper techniques are hard for Olinemen to unlearn.

It is frustrating to see Feeney, for example, develop so slowly, as he was considered a "clean prospect."

It is all alchemy too, the coming together of an Oline unit.

I don't think the concept of unit can be overstated...individual performance vs working with who is alongside.

I do believe Campen can work with who we have, and build from there.

It is fascinating to see the difference with and without Okung/Pouncey.

Not only is there a talent deficiency, but others simply play better with the leaders out there.

So there is technique and there is self confidence.

[Topcat]

so, do you think Campen could improve our oline with the guys we have?

usually when I search for oline prospects try to look at the footwork not only at the power or the size, especially now with a lot of zone blocking systems

Well, Happy Campen does have a rep for developing mid to late round draftees into solid starters...so maybe he is doing a lot of what Steve refers to...

[Topcat]

The problem is that college coaches use the spread systems to "simplify" their teaching. They simply do not coach OL on the fundamental skills the way the NFL needs them too. So, while college pass rusher, QB and Receivers all benefit from the spread system, the OL doesn't.

Most college teams prefer "vertical set technique" while NFL teams prefer "kick stepping".

Vertical Set - backpedal fast, get as much depth, then hope that you can play lower than the DL who is now upright. It kinda resembles running for your life.

http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...tical-set.html

Kick Step - play the angles and engage the DL early. Then when you have thwarted the move, he is stalemated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTWMa8UfPQ

Jim McNally, one of the early technician type OL coaches in football.

In the NFL, if the D plays press coverage, then the QB has to wait for the WR to get open, NFL caliber pass rushers have the OL back in the QB face or the QB is running for their life. Penetration kills offensive football, and the vertical set is ALLOWING the D to penetrate. A lot of staple college plays simply don't work well in the NFL because guys are too big and too fast, and college rely a LOT on just putting super athletic and fast guys in space. Which of course is the point of spreading everyone out in the first place, so that you wouldn't have to block them.

College coaches will counter that running backwards is a lot easier to teach and anyone can do it. If that sounds suspicious, then you are probably right. It works well enough in college, because for the most part most college players aren't very good athletes.

None of this it to minimize the problems the Chargers have on the OL. I put this thread together because so many people seem to minimize the issues with just going out and trying to draft the fixes, but that may not work. So many college teams play spread that you are basically being forced to teach your OL from scratch.

Seattle even went so far as to stop drafting OL. They would draft former college DL who were not going to be able to make the step up to being pro DL, and were good athletes, and then Tom Cable would simply train them to be OL instead. He felt like he was basically starting from scratch anyway, although he wasn't particularly successful at developing either.

[Topcat]

Appreciate that analysis, Steve. So, to make sure we draft the right O-linemen, looks like we need to bring in all the O-line prospective draftees we have targeted for an extensive workout. Our coaches need to take careful notes and study the video of these workouts. Then, decide who has the best upside as far as being coached up to improve kick stepping technique. Does that sound about right?

[Boltnut]

Generally, I agree. Spread offenses have allowed college coaches and o-linemen to be sloppy with technique and fundamentals. However, IMO, there are OL players that have the talent to come in and make a difference right away... either their technique has ben refined already or they have the physical tools (foot speed, strength, or length) to excel vs. NFL speed/power. Let's focus on the OT position (since this is where foot speed, technique, and length matter most). Take a look at the last 4 drafts. Remember that 1st round picks are eligible for 5th-year options...

2016:

1st rounders:

Ronnie Stanley (87.2) Option: $12.9 mil.
Jack Conklin (78.0) Option not exercised. Market value: $15-18 mil.
Laremy Tunsil (75.8) Option: $10.35 mil.
Taylor Decker (75.5) Option: $10.35 mil.
Germaine Ifedi (56.2) Drafted as a guard, moved to OT. Option not exercised.

2nd rounders:

Jason Spriggs ( 0 snaps played)

3rd rounders:

Shon Coleman (0 snaps played)
La"raven Clark (0 snaps played)

4th rounders:

Willie Beavers (0 snaps)
Jerald Hawkins (3 snaps)
Alex Lewis (55.0) Moved to OG. Traded from Ravens to Jets for a 7th round pick.

5th round:

John Theus (0 snaps)
Caleb Benenoch (0 snaps)
Joe Haeg (72 snaps) Moved to OG.
Brandon Shell (63.6)
Halapoulivaati Vaitai (72.8) The one late round success story.
Cole Toner (0 snaps) Moved to OG
Fahn Cooper (0 snaps) Moved to OG

6th round:

Kyle Murphy (0 snaps)

Wow! That went longer than I thought! I will try to do listings for 2017, 2018, and 2019. But the trends are not all that different.

[wu-dai clan]

I mostly agree Nutty, but am very picky about Oline.

DO NOT get me started on Ronnie Stanley, only the #1 pass blocking OLT in football IMV.

Then there's your favorite, Orlando Brown Jr, aka Son of Zeus, aka the original OBJ, with his 37" arm length.

This brings me to Mekhi Becton...this is comical...he flicks people out of the way like a Booger MacFarland outta your left nostril...just beats the snot out of defenders...first level...second level.

I am within a nose hair of saying Becton @ #6 and that is my final answer.

[Boltnut]

Yes. Becton is impressive. He's my #3 rated OT. He's a 1st rounder. IMO, there are 4 first rounders. Andrew Thomas, Jedric Wills, Mekhi Becton, and Tristan Wirfs (RT only).

[wu-dai clan]

Yes. Becton is impressive. He's my #3 rated OT. He's a 1st rounder. IMO, there are 4 first rounders. Andrew Thomas, Jedric Wills, Mekhi Becton, and Tristan Wirfs (RT only).

Wills and Wirfs are the most pro ready IMV.
Becton has a nickname for Jonathan Ogden..."Tiny."
LOL.
When he gets in his stance, Mekhi 's left leg is planted four yards behind the LOS.
I want Mekhi's stratospheric upside over all others.

Mekhi is a outlier.
The rare size that he possesses
is coupled with his rare athleticism.
Duke Manyweather
@BigDuke50