The Problem With OL Coaching Today

[Steve]

Mekhi Becton
watched 2 games (ND and BC).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dl-FlupgL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsb7vhU-nWQ

Not a natural knee bender. Has a hard time getting low in his stance. That lets the DE get under him at times and drive him into the backfield. Stands up at times, and allows defenders to get under his pads.

He needs to work on his stance. He might get called for staggering his stance too much, which is a penalty in the NFL. The rule actually says he needs to have both shoulder facing the other team goal line.

He can slide in pass protection. Understand angles and has solid footwork. Flashes quick feet, although generally just works hard enough to get it done.

Can be too aggressive. On his short sets, he tends to fire out and engages the edge too close to the line. It works for him in the games I watched, but against pro pass rushers, will be an all or nothing type of block. Would be better off being patient and letting the defender come to him, and play the angle. He is too Fluker like on short sets.

Needs to use his hands better in terms of placement, but he is OK, getting them inside more often than not. Lacks a solid punch with hands. More of a pusher than striker. Spends a lot of time throwing college DE, but needs to deliver the blow and drive them back with his punch.

Good drive blocker. Simply engulfs DL and OLB over him. Can collapse the backside of the line so far that the cutbacks on runs away will get back to his gap.

Poor cut blocker. Struggles to cut the backside edge on runs away. Mostly just dives and misses. Much better if he keeps his feet, although he is not a hustle guy and is kinda low energy.

Not good on the second level. Can fire out and get to the 2nd level, but usually will just fire through and the S or LB is not there anymore. Needs to study more to know what the defenders will do based on their reads so he can cut them off.

Needs to watch his weight. Is already huge and the size of a mountain. If he gets any bigger, he won't be able to get in his stance.

I agree he is a pretty good player, but disagree he is better than Thomas and Wirfs. He does still have some upside, but there is a fair amount of risk too. His short set pass protection reminds me too much of DJ Fluker, being too aggressive and going out to get defenders. He also needs to get better at blocking the backside on runs away.

[Topcat]

Mekhi Becton
watched 2 games (ND and BC).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dl-FlupgL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsb7vhU-nWQ

Not a natural knee bender. Has a hard time getting low in his stance. That lets the DE get under him at times and drive him into the backfield. Stands up at times, and allows defenders to get under his pads.

He needs to work on his stance. He might get called for staggering his stance too much, which is a penalty in the NFL. The rule actually says he needs to have both shoulder facing the other team goal line.

He can slide in pass protection. Understand angles and has solid footwork. Flashes quick feet, although generally just works hard enough to get it done.

Can be too aggressive. On his short sets, he tends to fire out and engages the edge too close to the line. It works for him in the games I watched, but against pro pass rushers, will be an all or nothing type of block. Would be better off being patient and letting the defender come to him, and play the angle. He is too Fluker like on short sets.

Needs to use his hands better in terms of placement, but he is OK, getting them inside more often than not. Lacks a solid punch with hands. More of a pusher than striker. Spends a lot of time throwing college DE, but needs to deliver the blow and drive them back with his punch.

Good drive blocker. Simply engulfs DL and OLB over him. Can collapse the backside of the line so far that the cutbacks on runs away will get back to his gap.

Poor cut blocker. Struggles to cut the backside edge on runs away. Mostly just dives and misses. Much better if he keeps his feet, although he is not a hustle guy and is kinda low energy.

Not good on the second level. Can fire out and get to the 2nd level, but usually will just fire through and the S or LB is not there anymore. Needs to study more to know what the defenders will do based on their reads so he can cut them off.

Needs to watch his weight. Is already huge and the size of a mountain. If he gets any bigger, he won't be able to get in his stance.

I agree he is a pretty good player, but disagree he is better than Thomas and Wirfs. He does still have some upside, but there is a fair amount of risk too. His short set pass protection reminds me too much of DJ Fluker, being too aggressive and going out to get defenders. He also needs to get better at blocking the backside on runs away.

Oops...yes, Becton is already 367 lbs., and that's his listed weight. Don't need another Toinu Fonoti...Becton only started playing well when he got his weight under control:

image.png

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/03/2020-nfl-draft-scouting-report-mekhi-becton-ot-louisville/

[wu-dai clan]

There has never been an NFL player with the combination of size and athleticism of Becton.

I am impatiently waiting for the Combine,
where the scores can really change.

[21&500]

A guy with weight problems in college is a big red flag imo.
sure, there can be valid reasons and more resources in the pros to help, but to me this is typically a discipline issue, and concerning.

[like54ninjas]

The problem is that college coaches use the spread systems to "simplify" their teaching. They simply do not coach OL on the fundamental skills the way the NFL needs them too. So, while college pass rusher, QB and Receivers all benefit from the spread system, the OL doesn't.

Most college teams prefer "vertical set technique" while NFL teams prefer "kick stepping".

Vertical Set - backpedal fast, get as much depth, then hope that you can play lower than the DL who is now upright. It kinda resembles running for your life.

http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...tical-set.html

Kick Step - play the angles and engage the DL early. Then when you have thwarted the move, he is stalemated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTWMa8UfPQ

Jim McNally, one of the early technician type OL coaches in football.

In the NFL, if the D plays press coverage, then the QB has to wait for the WR to get open, NFL caliber pass rushers have the OL back in the QB face or the QB is running for their life. Penetration kills offensive football, and the vertical set is ALLOWING the D to penetrate. A lot of staple college plays simply don't work well in the NFL because guys are too big and too fast, and college rely a LOT on just putting super athletic and fast guys in space. Which of course is the point of spreading everyone out in the first place, so that you wouldn't have to block them.

College coaches will counter that running backwards is a lot easier to teach and anyone can do it. If that sounds suspicious, then you are probably right. It works well enough in college, because for the most part most college players aren't very good athletes.

None of this it to minimize the problems the Chargers have on the OL. I put this thread together because so many people seem to minimize the issues with just going out and trying to draft the fixes, but that may not work. So many college teams play spread that you are basically being forced to teach your OL from scratch.

Seattle even went so far as to stop drafting OL. They would draft former college DL who were not going to be able to make the step up to being pro DL, and were good athletes, and then Tom Cable would simply train them to be OL instead. He felt like he was basically starting from scratch anyway, although he wasn't particularly successful at developing either.

Dropping knowledge.

[like54ninjas]

I mostly agree Nutty, but am very picky about Oline.

DO NOT get me started on Ronnie Stanley, only the #1 pass blocking OLT in football IMV.

Then there's your favorite, Orlando Brown Jr, aka Son of Zeus, aka the original OBJ, with his 37" arm length.

This brings me to Mekhi Becton...this is comical...he flicks people out of the way like a Booger MacFarland outta your left nostril...just beats the snot out of defenders...first level...second level.

I am within a nose hair of saying Becton @ #6 and that is my final answer.

He is sure in my cluster. FUCKING MONSTER!

[Steve]

NO, there have been players like that in the past. It did not end well for them.

I am not saying we should dismiss him or even discount him. I am just saying there is RISK there. We need to MANAGE RISK, not avoid it altogether. You do that by getting to know the player and do some work on it. Find out how much football means to him and what he is willing to do to make it big as an OT in the NFL.

Becton is the type of player that you can cash in on if you can find someone who is willing to trade up for the #6 pick. He is the kind of player who could potentially be the best RT in the NFL if you handle him correctly. A lot just depends on what he is like personally. BUt you decide he is the right guy, you trade down, add picks and then look brilliant for getting the value of the #6 pick a few picks later. But you have to do your homework to see if all the players are like. It doesn't work if you only know one or two guys, you have to know everyone in the draft.

I don't know how many people remember when Norman Hand played for the Chargers. He was a overweight (400 lb) DT for the Dolphins we picked up when they got sick of his weight problems. His 1st season with us, he was the 3rd DT who would come on the field, play a couple of plays then go off because he was too fat to play hard. His 1st offseason he and his wife decided they needed to make lifestyle changes and they started walking everywhere, in addition to all the workouts the Chargers had him. He got a nutritionist and he lost 50 lbs, and turned the goo that was his body into something approaching what an NFL DT should look like (he was still kinda sloppy, but closer). He was the best DT in football the next couple of seasons.

[like54ninjas]

Oops...yes, Becton is already 367 lbs., and that's his listed weight. Don't need another Toinu Fonoti...Becton only started playing well when he got his weight under control:

image.png

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/03/2020-nfl-draft-scouting-report-mekhi-becton-ot-louisville/

He played well all 3 collegiate seasons.
He improved each season.
His body composition has visibly changed each year but from 18 to 19 huge. This MUST continue to obtain potential.
Athletes this size with insane power, excellent movement skills, and length (my estimate 36+” arms & 88” wingspan) don’t happen often.

[wu-dai clan]

Becton does check off many boxes.
He has leaned up.
Mekhi has to be throttled down,
because he works so hard.
Blocks are executed at the second level.
TT wants guys who love football.
Well, I see a prospect with a very high ceiling.

The comps to Jonathan Ogden speak foe themselves, I see now including Bobby Petrino.

Nobody is comparing Andrew Thomas to Anthony Munoz,
or
Dedrick Wills to Tony Boselli.

[like54ninjas]

Becton does check off many boxes.
He has leaned up.
Mekhi has to be throttled down,
because he works so hard.
Blocks are executed at the second level.
TT wants guys who love football.
Well, I see a prospect with a very high ceiling.

The comps to Jonathan Ogden speak foe themselves, I see now including Bobby Petrino.

Nobody is comparing Andrew Thomas to Anthony Munoz,
or
Dedrick Wills to Tony Boselli.

I agree that Mekhi is comparable to Ogden. Becton has a shit ton of work to continue to put in but the size, athleticism, power, and natural tools are strikingly simular.

The Munoz comp is Penei Sewell next year.
Ive never seen anything like him at the college level.

[Charge!]

Bad habits and improper techniques are hard for Olinemen to unlearn.

It is frustrating to see Feeney, for example, develop so slowly, as he was considered a "clean prospect."

It is all alchemy too, the coming together of an Oline unit.

I don't think the concept of unit can be overstated...individual performance vs working with who is alongside.

I do believe Campen can work with who we have, and build from there.

It is fascinating to see the difference with and without Okung/Pouncey.

Not only is there a talent deficiency, but others simply play better with the leaders out there.

So there is technique and there is self confidence.

Interesting too that many other teams draft OL in 2nd, 3rd or later rounds and somehow they turn into good or solid players? ...... Chargers seem to swing and miss wherever we draft them...... maybe coaching is the issue? even throwing darts at a draft board should hit an a good player sometimes......

[pacstud]

Many college teams still kick slide, as do many HS teams.
The vertical set perfected by Walsh's teams in the 80s still has a place (I personally don't like it).
Taking an O-Lineman based on athletic potential is not new, nor is the belief at each level that "re-coaching" must occur. College coaches look at HS kids the same way (and they also ignore the critical things).

Intangibles such as grit, work ethic, football IQ, etc...these are the elements most required ceteris paribus.