NBA off-season

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Kobe's contract hurts the team and will forever hurt the Lakers because.

And OIP, it's just glorious that you've decided to directly respond to me again in the last three weeks. But I'd rather you go back to 'passive-aggressive pretend to ignore me but really be talking to me mode' if you're just going to spew the same old Joey Harrington-type piffle. Setting up fake arguments to tear down is just really pointless. It works with AssCannon, but not anyone with an IQ over 7.

[sandiego17]

The echo chamber doing call and response. Nice.

I laid it out. It's not complicated. Doesn't require a Yuba-like treatise. I get that you're bummed, but don't take it out on me. You act like this is some obtuse take. Newsflash: others (knowledgeable media types) are saying the same thing. Hell, just look at the moves. They speak for themselves. Oh right....The Plan was to clear space to make THE BIG MOVE next year. When did we first start hearing that? When Melo had narrowed it down to Chi-NYK? This is what you guys are reduced to. Cowboys and Raiders fans. Starstruck Fanboys.

Who is you guys? I was glad melo didn't accept the offer. Hard to comprehend as a clipper fan, I get that, but personally had no interest in melo. And melo didn't not sign with the lakers because iof Kobe, which destroys your assertion in and of itself. But you keep believing whatever it is you like, I view it as a coping mechanism from years of rooting for poop while getting pooped on. Lashing out in a faux analytical mode isn't going to change that. I mean, declaring that wiggins shouldn't come out this year (and sucks) because of the very slim chance the lakers might draft him is rational? You mentioned Gasol. He is a classy, talented player who I would have liked to see back, but I could understand why he would chose to leave and it has zero to do with Kobe. In fact, the only reason he might have considered coming back was because of Kobe. You have not made any case whatsoever that Kobe's contract or KOBE has hurt the team. Frankly, the knowledgable media types haven't either. Seriously, without Kobe, you think LEBRON! would have signed up? It's ridiculous.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

In the last two offseasons, which players have lined up to play with Kobe? Pau walked for nothing. Howard walked for nothing. Melo preferred Chicago to LA. LeBron (per the article) was a whiff. A glamour franchise with a ton of money who was said to be "going for it" by none other than Kobe came up with nothing more than Lin, Hill and Ceballos Lite.

The issue is as I said, you have a legacy superstar and no coach. Like Cuban and Nowitzki over the past few years, clinging to past glories and holding up a big wad of cash doesn't necessarily inspire new talent to come forward. The offseason isn't over. Maybe they can make some trades. Randle will be a good player. But the franchise is not attracting upper echelon players atm because no one really sees how linking up with an old and hurt overpaid Kobe (and Nash?) advances their interests. Throw into it that there seems to be no urgency in hiring a coach and forgive me, but the ship looks rudderless. Again, the whole point of being the Lakers or Yankees is that you don't have to spend three years rebuilding. But that's what's happening and what happens when leadership is kind of weak.

[sandiego17]

In the last two offseasons, which players have lined up to play with Kobe? Pau walked for nothing. Howard walked for nothing. Melo preferred Chicago to LA. LeBron (per the article) was a whiff. A glamour franchise with a ton of money who was said to be "going for it" by none other than Kobe came up with nothing more than Lin, Hill and Ceballos Lite.

And that's on Kobe in your opinion? I disagree. If you think Pau walked away because of Kobe, you're obviously not following the situation, even on the periphery. Again, which of those that you mention didn't come or stay because of Kobe? I think Melo preferred NY, but whatever you say. And again with LeBron (this time with an article caveat.) Man you're reaching hard on this LeBron thing. Let it go, its embaressing.

Again, the whole point of being the Lakers or Yankees is that you don't have to spend three years rebuilding. But that's what's happening and what happens when leadership is kind of weak.

Seriously? What was wrong with the leadership during the Ced Ceballos, Elden Campbell, Pig Miller years? That leadership ended up winning more titles yet they didn't they just pick up the phone and order up an MJ or Hakeem, on demand? Idiots.

[sandiego17]

Uh oh. Doc isn't going to be happy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11219276/nba-jerseys-now-feature-gold-tabs-collars-indicate-teams-won-titles

LEBRON!(tm) should get an exception as he has two, even if the Cavs don't.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

And that's on Kobe in your opinion? I disagree. If you think Pau walked away because of Kobe, you're obviously not following the situation, even on the periphery. Again, which of those that you mention didn't come or stay because of Kobe? I think Melo preferred NY, but whatever you say. And again with LeBron (this time with an article caveat.) Man you're reaching hard on this LeBron thing. Let it go, its embaressing.

1. Not all on Kobe as I have said many times in this thread, but predominantly. I never said Pau didn't like Kobe or didn't want to play with him. He probably left bc he wanted to win and since the Lakers made the commitment to Kobe based on the past vs the future, they were clear that they weren't about that. So yes, indirectly, he left because of Kobe. Howard probably left because of Kobe and D'Antoni. I can't say for sure what LeBron's reasons were. I suppose you can buy the marketing spin of Decision II 100%, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't at least largely related to the fact that the Cavs are trying to win and LA isn't. Or maybe some of the rumblings about "playing with Kobe" have some merit. Don't know enough about that to really speculate. But it's out there.

2. Melo did prefer NY. He also preferred Chicago. In the final stages the choice was between Chicago and NY. LAL didn't make the final cut. Ironically, even NYK look like they are more about winning games right now.

3.If your argument is that the Lakers weren't trying to get LeBron or that it wasn't Plan A (or that it wasn't a ridiculous Plan A), I'd be glad to link not just one but about 50 articles that say something different. If your argument is back to "Cleveland ties" and the marketing spin of Decision II, then fine. But do you think LeBron would have made the same commitment if Kyrie and Wiggins were in LA and Sacre, Kobe and Swaggy were in Cleveland? There's a bridge I'd like to sell you. Lots of players (most?) overlook ties for opportunities to win rings and get paid, so it's a little naive to buy too much into the "northeast ohio" angle. You can bet that a variety of different articles could have been written by LBJs team. I'm not reaching on anything. Even if it was all about "making things right" with Cleveland, the fact that it was Plan A might just show that management needs a reality check. Of course at the end of the day, this is all speculation.

But what isn't speculation is that in the last two years, three guys the Lakers really went all out to keep or sign, snubbed them. They have not added any meaningful free agents despite a ton of cap room. That's not a very impressive track record for a decorated, glamourous, big media market, cash-rich franchise. If you want to say it doesn't have to do with Kobe, OK. But as a truly unbiased observer (your opinion on this matter is WILDLY inaccurate)....I can see why guys don't particularly want to go to LAL right now because of Kobe's presence, declining skills, health issues and a cap number which does preclude actually assembling a legitimate contender (renouncing Gasol, not offering guys market dollars, etc). Those are just realities and you don't seem to want to deal with them. So again, that's your thing. I've sort of done my best to explain it as I see it and based on a lot of thing's I've heard and read. It's fatuous to ignore all of it, really. But I recognize you're an intelligent guy so I prefer to just think it's emotions blinding you to it.

This is really all I have to say on the subject. I've said it several different ways and you don't accept any of it as even the slightest bit legitimate, so like I said that's a most definite YP. This is me talking to Fanboys in their echo chamber. Nothing left to say except, I hope you enjoy the last years of the Kobe era.

Seriously? What was wrong with the leadership during the Ced Ceballos, Elden Campbell, Pig Miller years? That leadership ended up winning more titles yet they didn't they just pick up the phone and order up an MJ or Hakeem, on demand? Idiots.

So those years were rebuilding years? LOL Thats a whole other kettle of fish and I don't care to discuss those failings.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Uh oh. Doc isn't going to be happy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11219276/nba-jerseys-now-feature-gold-tabs-collars-indicate-teams-won-titles

LEBRON!(tm) should get an exception as he has two, even if the Cavs don't.

The bitterness is palpable. As I've said in other threads, I don't get it but that's your deal.

Oh and for the record, I never said Wiggins sucked. I said I questioned whether he should come out this year because I felt that he needed more seasoning vs what I would expect out of a #1 overall. Your counter-argument was about making money and developing in the NBA and that's fine. That's your point of view. But it's not necessary to mischaracterize my position.

[sandiego17]

The bitterness is palpable. As I've said in other threads, I don't get it but that's your deal.

Yup bitter about the Clippers. Makes sense. I already told you I think Doc is a POS, but that was before he ever forced his way out of Boston to go work for a racist that he claims he didn't know was a racist and if he did he never would have worked for him. That somehow makes sense to Clipper fans.

Oh and for the record, I never said Wiggins sucked. I said I questioned whether he should come out this year because I felt that he needed more seasoning vs what I would expect out of a #1 overall. Your counter-argument was about making money and developing in the NBA and that's fine. That's your point of view. But it's not necessary to mischaracterize my position.

OK, suck for Wiggins? Wiggins sucks. Parker looking like the only serious guy to tank for right now. Either way they were going to be in the lottery. I think the bigger issue is why they didn't try to amass as many picks as possible.

No, you said Wiggins sucks. Explicitly. I don't mischaracterize anything. Now you mischaracterizing an entire offseason is another kettle of fish...

[sandiego17]

3.If your argument is that the Lakers weren't trying to get LeBron or that it wasn't Plan A (or that it wasn't a ridiculous Plan A), I'd be glad to link not just one but about 50 articles that say something different. If your argument is back to "Cleveland ties" and the marketing spin of Decision II, then fine. But do you think LeBron would have made the same commitment if Kyrie and Wiggins were in LA and Sacre, Kobe and Swaggy were in Cleveland? There's a bridge I'd like to sell you. Lots of players (most?) overlook ties for opportunities to win rings and get paid, so it's a little naive to buy too much into the "northeast ohio" angle. You can bet that a variety of different articles could have been written by LBJs team. I'm not reaching on anything. Even if it was all about "making things right" with Cleveland, the fact that it was Plan A might just show that management needs a reality check. Of course at the end of the day, this is all speculation.

LEBRON! is every teams plan A. Why didn't he work out a deal to come play for the Clippers? SA? Chicago? Is Cleveland, a team that missed the playoffs and drafted a player who you yourself says sucks (Wiggins) in better position to win today than the Clippers? The Rockets (who made room)? I don't care how many articles speculate about LeBron joining the Lakers, no Laker fan I know gave it any credence. Only person who gave it credence on this board is a Clipper fan. So why not the Clippers? I can find LeBron to the Clippers articles. If he wasn't Plan A for the Clips, than they're being run by idiots.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Yup bitter about the Clippers. Makes sense. I already told you I think Doc is a POS, but that was before he ever forced his way out of Boston to go work for a racist that he claims he didn't know was a racist and if he did he never would have worked for him. That somehow makes sense to Clipper fans.

Yeah I can't figure it out either, but you keep doing it. You don't have to feel that way. There are logical reasons to think differently, but you struggle there.

No, you said Wiggins sucks. Explicitly. I don't mischaracterize anything. Now you mischaracterizing an entire offseason is another kettle of fish...

Well I sure didn't remember saying that. Pretty poor choice to formulate it that way bc it doesn't reflect my opinion of him as a player. Of course, context matters and you seem completely ignorant (willfully?) of it in this case. My next post:

Wiggins has upside but he doesn't strike me as extraordinary at this point. He needs to stay in school and work on his game some. Parker is the closest thing IMO.

I think that clarifies my position.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

LEBRON! is every teams plan A. Why didn't he work out a deal to come play for the Clippers? SA? Chicago? Is Cleveland, a team that missed the playoffs and drafted a player who you yourself says sucks (Wiggins) in better position to win today than the Clippers? The Rockets (who made room)? I don't care how many articles speculate about LeBron joining the Lakers, no Laker fan I know gave it any credence. Only person who gave it credence on this board is a Clipper fan. So why not the Clippers? I can find LeBron to the Clippers articles. If he wasn't Plan A for the Clips, than they're being run by idiots.

We're running in circles now, aren't we? It's your contention that a player of that caliber would never choose the Clippers (or usually the other teams) over the Lakers. The Lakers, after all, are on a different plane. And yet somehow they didn't sign the guy. I don't take issue with the argument that the Lakers are on a different plane than the Clippers, bc that would be stupid (and I've said that repeatedly). But there are reasons why people aren't signing with the Lakers. Or is it your contention that Plan B was Swaggy, Hill and Lin? Did I give it credence that LeBron was going to go to the Lakers? No. I ridiculed it, so giving it credence is an impossibility. I do give it credence that he was Plan A for the Lakers. And you agree. So what is the issue, exactly?

I'll assume the other points are accepted and that you were just really hung up on the LeBron thing.

[sandiego17]

Yeah I can't figure it out either, but you keep doing it. You don't have to feel that way. There are logical reasons to think differently, but you struggle there.

Reread the Lakeshow thread. I'm fairly certain its more of the Clipper fan obsession with the Lakers at play. I could care less about the Clipper glory years and I do like the Griffin commercials, very entertaining.

Well I sure didn't remember saying that. Pretty poor choice to formulate it that way bc it doesn't reflect my opinion of him as a player. Of course, context matters and you seem completely ignorant (willfully?) of it in this case. My next post: I think that clarifies my position.

That next post was in response to my question about you really thinking Wiggins sucks. Come on now. The only reason you said Wiggins sucks was during a Laker tanking discussion. Kind of cushioning the blow in case the Lakers did someone land him by winning the lottery. Its not me missing context my friend, its revisionism at play. Lakers didn't get him, so obviously he no longer sucks.