And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Fouts2herbert]

His play at LT the year before? Like you said, everybody looked like shit last year…

if you agree that everyone looked like shit last year then why are still singling out Trey? seems like a double standard to me...

[blueman]

if you agree that everyone looked like shit last year then why are still singling out Trey? seems like a double standard to me...

I’ve got more hope the younger guys can up their respective ceilings with new coaches/schemes. Pip, he still has the same shortcomings, after how many years of development/off season training? Just being sensible.

[eaterfan]

if you agree that everyone looked like shit last year then why are still singling out Trey? seems like a double standard to me...

I'm not the original poster who says that, but here's why Pipkins is the most concerning to me.

1. He was probably the worst OL on the team. There are degrees of shitty and he's the most of it.
2. He has the longest track record of being shitty. He's had 1.25 good seasons and 3.75. I think there's a bigger chance that he's shitty compared to the others.
2A. Players generally stop improving as rapidly the longer they've been in the league. You can expect rookies, 2nd year players and even 3rd year players to improve, but at some point players are who they are. Pipkins is closer to that than Slater, Salyer, and Johnson.
3. OT is a more important position than OG. A shitty 30th percentile OG is good enough to win with. A 30th percentile OT isn't.
4. He makes the most on the OL and cutting him will produce the most cap savings and the team can sign more in FA or cut fewer guys if they replace Pipkins with a draft pick instead of Salyer or Johnson.
5. Finding a great OT is harder and generally requires a higher pick than Center or OG. If this were a thread about what to do with our 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round picks maybe there would be more focus on the interior. But to fix a problem at OT, it generally requires a 1st rounder to be confident in finding a solution.
6. Trey has been on the team the longest and had a large variety of improvements to the team that could have helped him and for the most part, didn't. He's struggled with different QBs, under different head coaches, different OCs, and a range of OL coaches. It's harder to believe it's an outside factor that's holding him back compared to a Zion Johnson or Salyer.
7. He's been at RT for awhile. Zion and Salyer both moved positions last year. There may be a learning curve and can improve as their bodies and minds get used to it.

So those are some reasons why it makes sense to worry more about Pipkins in this thread than any of the other OL.

[OG619FrightninLightnin]

Isn't the OL pretty cheap? Slater, Salyer, Johnson are all on Ronnie contracts and Pipkins isn't making a ton.

Pip makes a bit and Slater will be extended soon, but you are correct. I probably should have said expense and draft capital

[Boltjolt]

Like you say, Bowers could be a possibility even AFTER a trade down.

Getting some extra picks via trading down is one of my primary goals, as a make-believe GM for the Bolts. If I can find a trade partner at any spot down to #11, I'm doing it.... for the right price, of course.

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)*
2. Washington Commanders*
3. New England Patriots*
4. Arizona Cardinals*
5. Los Angeles Chargers*
6. New York Giants*
7. Tennessee Titans*
8. Atlanta Falcons*
9. Chicago Bears*
10. New York Jets*
11. Minnesota Vikings*
12. Denver Broncos
13. Las Vegas Raiders
14. New Orleans Saints*
15. Indianapolis Colts*
16. Seattle Seahawks*
17. Jacksonville Jaguars*
18. Cincinnati Bengals*

If the Giants dont go QB i can see them going WR or Bowers. Id think they have to look at QB though.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

If the Giants dont go QB i can see them going WR or Bowers. Id think they have to look at QB though.

If the Giants fear that the Chargers will trade the #5 pick to a QB hungry, they can probably swap picks with the Bolts in exchange for a 3rd rounder.

[sonorajim]

I'm not the original poster who says that, but here's why Pipkins is the most concerning to me.

1. He was probably the worst OL on the team. There are degrees of shitty and he's the most of it.
2. He has the longest track record of being shitty. He's had 1.25 good seasons and 3.75. I think there's a bigger chance that he's shitty compared to the others.
2A. Players generally stop improving as rapidly the longer they've been in the league. You can expect rookies, 2nd year players and even 3rd year players to improve, but at some point players are who they are. Pipkins is closer to that than Slater, Salyer, and Johnson.
3. OT is a more important position than OG. A shitty 30th percentile OG is good enough to win with. A 30th percentile OT isn't.
4. He makes the most on the OL and cutting him will produce the most cap savings and the team can sign more in FA or cut fewer guys if they replace Pipkins with a draft pick instead of Salyer or Johnson.
5. Finding a great OT is harder and generally requires a higher pick than Center or OG. If this were a thread about what to do with our 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round picks maybe there would be more focus on the interior. But to fix a problem at OT, it generally requires a 1st rounder to be confident in finding a solution.
6. Trey has been on the team the longest and had a large variety of improvements to the team that could have helped him and for the most part, didn't. He's struggled with different QBs, under different head coaches, different OCs, and a range of OL coaches. It's harder to believe it's an outside factor that's holding him back compared to a Zion Johnson or Salyer.
7. He's been at RT for awhile. Zion and Salyer both moved positions last year. There may be a learning curve and can improve as their bodies and minds get used to it.

So those are some reasons why it makes sense to worry more about Pipkins in this thread than any of the other OL.

Center is the biggest need on OL but we can go 2d- 3rd rd or vet FA.

[sonorajim]

If the Giants fear that the Chargers will trade the #5 pick to a QB hungry, they can probably swap picks with the Bolts in exchange for a 3rd rounder.

That might work.

[Fouts2herbert]

If the Giants fear that the Chargers will trade the #5 pick to a QB hungry, they can probably swap picks with the Bolts in exchange for a 3rd rounder.

depends on what the bears do, if the bears take williams it's possible that the first three QBs could go back to back to back in the first three picks...that would limit a charger trade down significantly...Hortiz hinted at trading down and accumulating picks during his press conference so we'll see, but one thing is certain, the draft will probably more interesting with this new GM than what we have been accustomed to...

[Boltnut]

Trey wasn't the only guy on that line that had a bad year, they all did, even Slater didn't play up to his previous standard...I know you don't like Trey and that you didn't want the team to resign him last year but why give the other guys a pass and bench pipkins in your scenario? Seems like you found a scapegoat thru confirmation bias. I would make the argument that Zion and Salyer played even worse than Trey last season. I don't have the statistics but to me from watching the games it seemed that the amount of pressure given up the middle exceeded what came from around the edge. What's with the double standard, is it just the contract or feelings about the player before he even got the contract?

To me it's obvious that the O-line fell apart after Linsley (they were kicking ass) became ill and the longer Corey was out the more they continued to regress as a unit as injuries piled on and the season spiraled out of control...

He wasn't the only one that sucked last year... and I give no one a pass. If they don't improve, I'd look for replacements.
Having said that, Pipkins has sucked for 5 years now. Storm Norton beat him out. That's not bias... that's plain unacceptable.
Settle for below average if you must. I'd try something new out. Jamaree Salyer played well @LT. I'd let him compete against Pip for RT.
If Salyer sucked so bad at RG... why would you keep him there? Maybe that's not his natural position. Upgrade @RG via the draft.
Obviously we need a center in the draft or FA. But why stop there if RT has proven to be a mess for many, many years...?
Jim said what I've been saying for years now... you're only as good as your weakest link.

[Fouts2herbert]

He wasn't the only one that sucked last year... and I give no one a pass. If they don't improve, I'd look for replacements.
Having said that, Pipkins has sucked for 5 years now. Storm Norton beat him out. That's not bias... that's plain unacceptable.
Settle for below average if you must. I'd try something new out. Jamaree Salyer played well @LT. I'd let him compete against Pip for RT.
If Salyer sucked so bad at RG... why would you keep him there? Maybe that's not his natural position. Upgrade @RG via the draft.
Obviously we need a center in the draft or FA. But why stop there if RT has proven to be a mess for many, many years...?
Jim said what I've been saying for years now... you're only as good as your weakest link.

so basically pipkins was the reason that the whole offensive line played poorly last year, the reason even Slater was getting uncharacteristic false starts, giving up pressures/sacks, and getting holding penalties? damn, I guess our new RT will have his work cut out for him if he's going to live up to that standard of being responsible for the whole line...

[Boltnut]

so basically pipkins was the reason that the whole offensive line played poorly last year, the reason even Slater was getting uncharacteristic false starts, giving up pressures/sacks, and getting holding penalties? damn, I guess our new RT will have his work cut out for him if he's going to live up to that standard of being responsible for the whole line...

Nice try. That's not what I'm saying.
Trey Pipkins barely got on the field his 1st 3 years. When he did... he sucked. He was so bad even Storm Norton started in front of him.
Whereas, Salyer started at LT as a rookie when Slater went down a few games into the season. He outplayed Pipkins @OT... as a rookie!
Zion started... as a rookie! He played out of position @RG... then had to switch to LG last year... 2nd year.
Keep Zion @LG... that was his position in college... where he had outstanding tape.
Both of those guys have way more potential than Pipkins.
Do they all need to improve...? Yes.
But if you can improve an important position... like RT... you do it.
Pipkins has had 5 years to show what he has.