The Rams

[sandiego17]

He helped them at PR in the first Raider game, that return was huge. That being said, I don't like seeing Allen back there returning punts, he's much more valuable at WR. Get someone in there that can make a fair catch and use Royal or Allen when you need a return (like the first Raider game). He needs to improve ball security, even on the TD it was a bit scary.

As far as the fumbles go, the fumble after the catch was bad, no ball security and he knows he's running through traffic. He has to be more aware there. However, the D did step up and get the ball back and Allen did atone for it with a very similar play. They did get up the 10 they missed out on due to the fumble. I don't blame Davis for the muffed punt. Allen himself took the blame, he was sliding around back there, didn't get under that punt well at all and Davis running into him was unfortunate.

[Yubaking]

He helped them at PR in the first Raider game, that return was huge. That being said, I don't like seeing Allen back there returning punts, he's much more valuable at WR. Get someone in there that can make a fair catch and use Royal or Allen when you need a return (like the first Raider game). He needs to improve ball security, even on the TD it was a bit scary.

As far as the fumbles go, the fumble after the catch was bad, no ball security and he knows he's running through traffic. He has to be more aware there. However, the D did step up and get the ball back and Allen did atone for it with a very similar play. They did get up the 10 they missed out on due to the fumble. I don't blame Davis for the muffed punt. Allen himself took the blame, he was sliding around back there, didn't get under that punt well at all and Davis running into him was unfortunate.

Interesting. Even I, probably not Allen's biggest fan on this board, think that Davis is at least significantly at fault for the muff. However, I also think that Allen is at fault for the way he entered traffic on that play. I do think he struggles with his decision making on punt returns and that is clearly evidenced by some of the dicey plays like the punt he had to dive on earlier this year, which turned a nothing play into an almost turnover.

Also, Allen's fumble after the catch against he Rams was huge because we had all the momentum and could have gone up 10. Then, the subsequent stop and TD would have put us up by 17, a safe lead at that point in the 4th quarter.

Davis looked better than Allen in the preseason at PR and he is not as valuable elsewhere so I do not get why he is not our PR. He seems perfect for the job. Maybe he is not as good at PR in practice. Who knows? But I am curious about that.

I admit that I am growing weary of Allen being involved in some way in a large number of our turnovers this year.

[sandiego17]

Also, Allen's fumble after the catch against he Rams was huge because we had all the momentum and could have gone up 10. Then, the subsequent stop and TD would have put us up by 17, a safe lead at that point in the 4th quarter.

Who knows what happens if he doesn't fumble? Maybe they throw a pick six or get stuffed and kick a FG? What actually happened after the fumble was the Chargers up by 10.

I admit that I am growing weary of Allen being involved in some way in a large number of our turnovers this year.

That pick, imo, was on Rivers.

[Panama]

I agree with this and not with Panama's take. If Jenkins is riding Allen with his hand while the ball is in the air, that is pass interference, but none was called and I did not think there was any on that play. I thought Allen did not do a good job at keeping his feet or at going for the ball. I thought it was a weak effort on his part on the play all the way around, but also a bad decision/throw by Rivers. I thought Allen was as much of a factor in stopping that play as I was from in front of my TV 2,000 miles away. On the replay, my immediate reaction was that I was pissed more at Allen than I was at Rivers because this is at least the 3rd time that Allen ended up as a spectator on an INT by Rivers.

You can disagree all you want with my take, but (to take a page out of your book) you are wrong.

I have already said there was no PI on the play. Contact is going to happen. Jenkins has an equal right to that ball and made a great break on it. But look at the replay. His hand is on the small of Allen's back. There is contact. The contact, combined with momentum, is the reason Allen goes down. But the contact is incidental contact made while Jenkins is making a play on the ball; it is not PI.

One of the first things I said regarding this INT is that Jenkins made a great play and sometimes you just have to credit the other team for making plays. I also then said that if you have to blame one of the Chargers, Rivers deserves most of the blame for throwing a pass without any zip on it which, because it didn't get there fast enough, ended up being behind Allen. (And I suspect the rib injury is to blame for the lack of zip.)

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself now. I've stated my case, but I don't expect to be able to convince someone with such a strong bias. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[TTK]

I do not fault the Rivers pick on Allen at all. That was just a terrible decision by PR.

I do not fault Allen for the punt...that was 100% on Davis.

Yes, Allen did fumble on a big gain. But he also ran in a touchdown later. He's a weapon.

Agreed.

[TTK]

Interesting. Even I, probably not Allen's biggest fan on this board, think that Davis is at least significantly at fault for the muff. However, I also think that Allen is at fault for the way he entered traffic on that play. I do think he struggles with his decision making on punt returns and that is clearly evidenced by some of the dicey plays like the punt he had to dive on earlier this year, which turned a nothing play into an almost turnover.

Also, Allen's fumble after the catch against he Rams was huge because we had all the momentum and could have gone up 10. Then, the subsequent stop and TD would have put us up by 17, a safe lead at that point in the 4th quarter.

Davis looked better than Allen in the preseason at PR and he is not as valuable elsewhere so I do not get why he is not our PR. He seems perfect for the job. Maybe he is not as good at PR in practice. Who knows? But I am curious about that.

I admit that I am growing weary of Allen being involved in some way in a large number of our turnovers this year.

Even if Allen doesn't try to catch that punt, the ball landed dangerously close to Davis (I think it hit Allen but it could have hit either player). He has no business blocking so close to where Allen was.

[KNSD]

How was that muffed punt not 100% Davis' (or perhaps bad luck's) fault?

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

[Mister Hoarse]

Bad decision by Rivers on that throw but to some extent Allen needs to be more physical there in the endzone. He could have put a shoulder into Jenkins and drive him back a little more. He didnt even touch him. Then he slipped giving Jenkins a wide open lane to get the ball. He dosnt slip he probably at least brings Jenkins down. I think Allen could have made the play less dramatic. WRs get away with being more physical in the end zone when they are being jammed.

Yep. Totally agree. He is just a 2nd year WR, and will have some issues. The fumble was to worst offense, and it was a mistake made while hustling for extra yards. The TDmade up for it. The punt was Davis, but I would like to see KA taken off of punts.

[Yubaking]

Who knows what happens if he doesn't fumble? Maybe they throw a pick six or get stuffed and kick a FG? What actually happened after the fumble was the Chargers up by 10.



That pick, imo, was on Rivers.

Of course, nobody can say what would have happened, but we had the momentum and were moving the ball very effectively during that entire stretch of the game which continued all the way through the following possession from our own 7 yard line that resulted in a TD. The way they were not stopping us, I think we would have scored a TD there. We were already at the 15, well within FG range.

Yes, most picks are primarily, if not exclusively on the QB. Allen is not fighting for the ball very effectively, though, on a number of the picks. It is kind of like when another player fumbles and a player does not make a good effort to recover the ball. The primary fault goes to the fumbler, but I always look at the guy that I think should have been able to recover the ball and wonder how the heck he didn't make that recovery. Some of those INTs this year have been kind of like that where I am asking myself what the heck Allen is doing on that play.

Like I said, Allen is nowhere near as bad as Meachem was at consistently not going to the ball, but I do not remember this being an issue at all for Allen last year. It is like he is developing a bad habit on some of the plays. Because I do not think he was like this last year, I think it is something he can fix. But I do want him to fix it. According to richpjr, apparently some of the UT writers have seen this and commented on this several times. So it's not as if I am making this stuff up. That's what I am seeing at times too.

That was the one thing I loved and miss about Danario Alexander. That guy really fought for the ball.

[Yubaking]

You can disagree all you want with my take, but (to take a page out of your book) you are wrong.

I have already said there was no PI on the play. Contact is going to happen. Jenkins has an equal right to that ball and made a great break on it. But look at the replay. His hand is on the small of Allen's back. There is contact. The contact, combined with momentum, is the reason Allen goes down. But the contact is incidental contact made while Jenkins is making a play on the ball; it is not PI.

One of the first things I said regarding this INT is that Jenkins made a great play and sometimes you just have to credit the other team for making plays. I also then said that if you have to blame one of the Chargers, Rivers deserves most of the blame for throwing a pass without any zip on it which, because it didn't get there fast enough, ended up being behind Allen. (And I suspect the rib injury is to blame for the lack of zip.)

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself now. I've stated my case, but I don't expect to be able to convince someone with such a strong bias. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

Okay.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Allen and Rivers have not been on the same page consistently for a few games before things started to improve. They are not, were not adjusting on the fly, on the same page IMO.