The Rams

[Panama]

Of course, nobody can say what would have happened, but we had the momentum and were moving the ball very effectively during that entire stretch of the game which continued all the way through the following possession from our own 7 yard line that resulted in a TD. The way they were not stopping us, I think we would have scored a TD there. We were already at the 15, well within FG range.

Yes, most picks are primarily, if not exclusively on the QB. Allen is not fighting for the ball very effectively, though, on a number of the picks. It is kind of like when another player fumbles and a player does not make a good effort to recover the ball. The primary fault goes to the fumbler, but I always look at the guy that I think should have been able to recover the ball and wonder how the heck he didn't make that recovery. Some of those INTs this year have been kind of like that where I am asking myself what the heck Allen is doing on that play.

Like I said, Allen is nowhere near as bad as Meachem was at consistently not going to the ball, but I do not remember this being an issue at all for Allen last year. It is like he is developing a bad habit on some of the plays. Because I do not think he was like this last year, I think it is something he can fix. But I do want him to fix it. According to richpjr, apparently some of the UT writers have seen this and commented on this several times. So it's not as if I am making this stuff up. That's what I am seeing at times too.

That was the one thing I loved and miss about Danario Alexander. That guy really fought for the ball.

Aaarrrrgh!

Ok, I know I said I was out, but I can't let such BS go uncontested.

Picks are primarily if not exclusively on the QB? Where do you pick up such utter bullshit?! Yeah, some picks are on the QB, some are on the pass rusher that hit the QB as he threw, some are on the WR who fell or ran a wrong route or gave up on the play, some are on the defender making a great play. You can't just make a blanket statement that picks are primarily the QB's fault and expect to be taken seriously.

And for everyone who thinks Allen should have contested that ball better: it's one thing to contest a jump ball, which DA did well, but a different thing entirely to contest a slant. KA is running away from the defender, for crying out loud. That's how the play is designed. He's running away from the fucking man, trying to gain separation, yet you want him to engage in fucking mano a mano with him at the same time he's running away from him?!?! If the QB throws the ball behind the WR on a slant, there's really not much a WR can do because all his momentum is going the other way. He can torque his body and reach back, and maybe he gets lucky and gets his hand on the ball, but more often than not he won't. And because all his momentum is going one way and he's trying to counter that suddenly to reach back, he'll throw himself off balance, so even minor incidental contact by the defender is often enough to send the WR reeling. It's simple junior high school physics! I know KA has made some spectacular catches on passes thrown behind him, but I think what some of you are asking from him on that play is completely unreasonable, as in most human beings would not be able to do that. I know it's easy for all of us to sit on our fat asses in front of the telly and say he should have done this or even I could have done that, but the reality is so many universes away from that it's crazy.

[Boltergeist]

How was that muffed punt not 100% Davis' (or perhaps bad luck's) fault?

I am a big time Allen fan and I think he is partially to blame. If you watch the replay, you'll see that while the punt is in the air he sets up way too far from where the ball comes down. Davis is watching him to decide where to set up his block. At the last second Allen realizes that he needs to adjust and runs toward the spot where Davis is. At this point, though, Allen is looking up at the ball and Davis needs to see him and move out. So I would assign some number between one and ninety percent to each of them. But I wouldn't put 100 percent of the blame on either. Maybe I would assign a few percentage points to the Bolts' most consistent player, Bad Luck.

[Yubaking]

Aaarrrrgh!

Ok, I know I said I was out, but I can't let such BS go uncontested.

Picks are primarily if not exclusively on the QB? Where do you pick up such utter bullshit?! Yeah, some picks are on the QB, some are on the pass rusher that hit the QB as he threw, some are on the WR who fell or ran a wrong route or gave up on the play, some are on the defender making a great play. You can't just make a blanket statement that picks are primarily the QB's fault and expect to be taken seriously.

And for everyone who thinks Allen should have contested that ball better: it's one thing to contest a jump ball, which DA did well, but a different thing entirely to contest a slant. KA is running away from the defender, for crying out loud. That's how the play is designed. He's running away from the fucking man, trying to gain separation, yet you want him to engage in fucking mano a mano with him at the same time he's running away from him?!?! If the QB throws the ball behind the WR on a slant, there's really not much a WR can do because all his momentum is going the other way. He can torque his body and reach back, and maybe he gets lucky and gets his hand on the ball, but more often than not he won't. And because all his momentum is going one way and he's trying to counter that suddenly to reach back, he'll throw himself off balance, so even minor incidental contact by the defender is often enough to send the WR reeling. It's simple junior high school physics! I know KA has made some spectacular catches on passes thrown behind him, but I think what some of you are asking from him on that play is completely unreasonable, as in most human beings would not be able to do that. I know it's easy for all of us to sit on our fat asses in front of the telly and say he should have done this or even I could have done that, but the reality is so many universes away from that it's crazy.

I think you need to go back and read Fleet's post. There absolutely are things that a WR can do on the play to prevent a CB from making a pick. He can drive into his defender and separate, taking the defender out of position. Bigger WRs use their bodies to pin CBs such they are blocked form making plays even if the CB is there.

Your original comments included the notion that Allen couldn't do anything because he was pushed. There was no PI and that level of contact should not have taken a 6'2", 211 pound man to the ground even if his momentum was slightly headed that way, which it was at most. He was not hauling ass across the end zone, which is what your post seems to suggest.

He needs to hold his footing better as he needed to hold it better on the low pass he fell down on against the Raiders (again, a low pass on which I primarily fault Rivers).

He needs to fight for the ball better. It is not just me saying it.

It was a bad throw by Rivers, but Allen needs to do a better job of contesting that and other plays and he is not doing it at times. I wouldn't say that it was as bad as Royal's failure to cross the defender in week 1, but his effort was not good on that pick and some others. He must hold his footing and reach back across his body and break that play up or at least make the tackle if the ball is intercepted. That is what I expect of him.

As for my generalization, I think it is generally true that most INTs are primarily on the QB. You want to dispute that?! Really?! That is not even a mildly controversial statement and it is not in any way inconsistent with the examples that you cited of plays on which the fault/credit went to other players. All of those plays can exist and yet the QB can still be primarily at fault as a general rule on most INTs.

[Panama]

I think you need to go back and read Fleet's post. There absolutely are things that a WR can do on the play to prevent a CB from making a pick. He can drive into his defender and separate, taking the defender out of position. Bigger WRs use their bodies to pin CBs such they are blocked form making plays even if the CB is there.

Do you bother to read the posts, or are you just one of the biggest idiots on the intarWebz??? The man was running a slant. The point of a slant is to gain quick separation by running away from the defender. How the fuck do you drive into a defender and run away from him at the same time??? Please explain this new transdimensional football reality to me.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Last I checked the wrs route dictates how he can or can not engage the defender. This was a timing route meaning every step is intentional in order to get KA to his destination exactly on time. The defender was spying on Rivers and jumped the route coming through KA. THAT DEFENDER MADE A PLAY. How is that Allen's fualt?

[Panama]

Your original comments included the notion that Allen couldn't do anything because he was pushed. There was no PI and that level of contact should not have taken a 6'2", 211 pound man to the ground even if his momentum was slightly headed that way, which it was at most. He was not hauling ass across the end zone, which is what your post seems to suggest.

Yes, that's right. My original comments include that notion. So do the ones you are responding to, and every single comment I have made about this. Go look at the fucking video. If I had a telestrator I'd circle it for you and then do that nauseau-inducing back-and-forth shit Madden used to love to do while shouting "Boom!" at you each and every time. Jenkins hand is on the small of Allen's back. Clearer than any of your pompous "Clearlies"!

Go watch the video. I'll wait.









I said go watch the fucking video, you moronic dimwit! (Which I say in the most loving manner to avoid my wrist getting slapped by an admin when you go crying to them about my epithets.)






Ok, I will now proceed under the assumption you've watched the video, so if you continue to sing the same tired song I'll have no choice to conclude there really are synapses that are misfiring up there:

Now that you've watched the video replay again, you see Allen is running a slant from left to right with Jenkins trailing him. The pass, as you can now see, lacks zip, and as a result of lacking zip it is targeted slightly behind Allen. (A pass with zip would have been a TD unless Allen drops it.) Allen reaches behind him while his momentum continues to carry him from left to right. Jenkins hand is resting on Allen's lower back as he begins to make the break on the pass. He does not extend his hand to push off, and the other contact between the two players is incidental because Allen has not established himself in the spot where the ball is and Jenkins is making a fair play on the ball. No PI whatsoever, despite your ignorant assumption that any contact is automatically PI. The combination of trying to reverse his momentum and the contact with Jenkins sends Allen to the ground, and Jenkins sprints the other way for an easy TD.

So, Mr Smarty Pants, how is a WR supposed to drive into a defender while running away from him? How is a WR supposed to hold footing better when torquing himself against the flow of his momentum to attempt a play on a poorly targeted pass while incidental contact by the defender is helping the momentum along? How is a WR suppose to contravene the laws of mechanics/physics to fight for or contest the ball better in this specific situation? Limit your answers to this particular play, please, as I am not looking for an encyclopedic analysis of every pass thrown at Allen, just this one he was meant to bend the fabric of space and time to catch.



And as for your generalization on QBs and fault in INTs -- not controversial??? --- that doesn't even merit a response. My shovel isn't big enough to dig through that mountain of bullshit.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Got a link to that video?

[Panama]

Got a link to that video?

Sorry, for some reason I thought someone else had posted it. I made one mistake: It was a square-in, not a slant. Otherwise, you can see Jenkins' left hand on Allen's lower back around his waist just before he breaks on the ball and Allen's effort to reach back for the ball despite his momentum taking him the other way, etc., etc. Allen ran a good, sharp route. Rivers unfortunately made one of his few poor throws of the day and Jenkins made a great play on the ball.

[sandiego17]

Allen and Rivers have not been on the same page consistently for a few games before things started to improve. They are not, were not adjusting on the fly, on the same page IMO.

It feels that way sometimes, but still Allen leads the team in targets, receptions, yards and, easily, getting open.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Sorry, for some reason I thought someone else had posted it. I made one mistake: It was a square-in, not a slant. Otherwise, you can see Jenkins' left hand on Allen's lower back around his waist just before he breaks on the ball and Allen's effort to reach back for the ball despite his momentum taking him the other way, etc., etc. Allen ran a good, sharp route. Rivers unfortunately made one of his few poor throws of the day and Jenkins made a great play on the ball.

Not sure from looking at it but could Allen have been a little late to his spot and that contributed to his loss of traction fighting back to the ball? No Allen was not late IMO Rivers was and he through it high and behind Allen.

[Panama]

Not sure from looking at it but could Allen have been a little late to his spot and that contributed to his loss of traction fighting back to the ball? No Allen was not late IMO Rivers was and he through it high and behind Allen.

There's always that possibility. Maybe Allen was split too wide, or broke too soon, or something. But the timing on these sorts of patterns is drilled so much it becomes mechanical to a degree. It just seemed to me that the pass lacked zip and was late getting to the spot. Obviously, we'll never *know* for sure unless somebody in the know speaks, and they never will, but to my eye that sure looked like a solid route and an uncharacteristically off pass.

[KNSD]

I am a big time Allen fan and I think he is partially to blame. If you watch the replay, you'll see that while the punt is in the air he sets up way too far from where the ball comes down. Davis is watching him to decide where to set up his block. At the last second Allen realizes that he needs to adjust and runs toward the spot where Davis is. At this point, though, Allen is looking up at the ball and Davis needs to see him and move out. So I would assign some number between one and ninety percent to each of them. But I wouldn't put 100 percent of the blame on either. Maybe I would assign a few percentage points to the Bolts' most consistent player, Bad Luck.

Fair enough.