I've Said This About Rivers And I'll Say It About Herbert

[Guest]

How many yards did that flubbed reverse net?
You cherry pick shit worse than a divorce attorney.

We had moved the ball 33 yards from our 29 to the Carolina 38 when the reverse lost us 18 yards, making it 2nd and 28, absolutely killing that drive as I stated previously.

The point is that it was on that drive that we decided to go pass heavy and it was working on that drive until we called a run; it worked on the drive after that for a FG; it worked on the drive after that for a TD; and it worked on the drive after that for about 85 yards until Allen botched the lateral at the end of the game. It was the greatest sustained success we have had on offense all year and it was due to us letting Herbert throw the ball more, not less.

It does remind me of how the players went to Marty after we lost to the Ravens in 2006 and urged Marty to let Rivers throw the ball. Marty did and the team took off because #17 could really play. Well, it is 14 years later and we have another conservative run heavy biased bad game tactician HC and we have another QB that can really play. If it helps us to win, I say let Herbert throw the ball.

[like54ninjas]

I never said that the attempts in known passing situations were not counted. I am saying that they skewed the YPC upward in Sunday's game and made it appear that we could run the ball more effectively in all downs and distances than was actually the case. In reality, our running game was inconsistent on Sunday and less effective than it had been in weeks one and two.

I 1000% percent disagree that you must necessarily establish the run in every game. If the other team cannot stop the pass, keep on passing. That is what we finally did on Sunday and it worked. I recall a game where we played against the Greatest Show on Turf and we were struggling to stop the pass. The Rams simply called a whole bunch of pass plays in a row against us on drive after drive, completely abandoning the run, and absolutely killed us with it. The point is, of course, that you go with what is working and the passing game is what was working on Sunday. Why run ineffectively when you can pass effectively? That just wastes a down. I do not care if Herbert throws 70 times in a game if it is working.

In other games, though, the running game might work better and there might be a different balance. And, by the way, insisting on running the ball is part of what makes Lynn less effective as a coach. Good game tacticians adjust their strategy to do what will work best for the team and can make adjustments quickly to what other teams are throwing at them.

We will score more than 20 shortly enough with Herbert at QB. I am not even remotely concerned about that. Barring us having the #1 overall pick in 2021, Herbert is our QB going forward.

You really don’t understand football.
Your written fluff is like reading an addict’s attempts to tell you he can stop anytime. Word salad vomit.
You go on with your quack analysis. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to teach you. You simply don’t have the capability to learn.
We are not drafting TL even if we have the #1 pick. Get over it.

[Guest]

You really don’t understand football.
Your written fluff is like reading an addict’s attempts to tell you he can stop anytime. Word salad vomit.
You go on with your quack analysis. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to teach you. You simply don’t have the capability to learn.
We are not drafting TL even if we have the #1 pick. Get over it.

You are not teaching anything. There really is mathematical simplicity in football. You are like the head coaches that would never go for it on 4th down because they were always told not to do so in spite of there being years worth of statistics proving that going for it was often the better option.

In case you missed it, over the past 50 years, the game has evolved into a passing dominant league. This is not 1970 football. Now, a good QB has a YPA of about eight. A good running team has a YPC of about 4.7. Which is better?

Although passing the ball is usually the better call, I have no issue with running the ball when that is working better. It was not on Sunday and you can't seem to grasp that simple concept even when I went drive by drive so you could see it.

Lastly, if I were wrong about my take on last Sunday's game, you would be able to show me that with the series of balanced drives that were working better, but you can't because those drives were not, on the whole, working better, so you have resorted to insulting me since you could not touch the points I successfully made.

[like54ninjas]

You are not teaching anything. There really is mathematical simplicity in football. You are like the head coaches that would never go for it on 4th down because they were always told not to do so in spite of there being years worth of statistics proving that going for it was often the better option.

In case you missed it, over the past 50 years, the game has evolved into a passing dominant league. This is not 1970 football. Now, a good QB has a YPA of about eight. A good running team has a YPC of about 4.7. Which is better?

Although passing the ball is usually the better call, I have no issue with running the ball when that is working better. It was not on Sunday and you can't seem to grasp that simple concept even when I went drive by drive so you could see it.

Lastly, if I were wrong about my take on last Sunday's game, you would be able to show me that with the series of balanced drives that were working better, but you can't because those drives were not, on the whole, working better, so you have resorted to insulting me since you could not touch the points I successfully made.

Since you asked. Here are each of our 1st half offensive drives play by play recap.
Were we having any trouble running the ball? We’re we having trouble in passpro?
The issue was committing turnovers that stopped us from scoring on multiple drives.
Learn the game!


PUNT3 PLAYS, 2 YARDS, 0:59
CAR0LAC0

• PUNT3 PLAYS, -11 YARDS, 1:34
  CAR0LAC0
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (14:00 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass incomplete short right to K.Allen (D.Jackson).
  • 2nd & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (13:57 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler right guard to LAC 25 for no gain (D.Brown).
  • 3rd & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (13:18 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert sacked at LAC 14 for -11 yards (M.Haynes).
  • 4th & 21 at LAC 14
    
    
    (12:38 - 1st) T.Long punts 42 yards to CAR 44, Center-C.Mazza. P.Cooper pushed ob at LAC 48 for 8 yards (U.Nwosu).
• FIELD GOAL6 PLAYS, 37 YARDS, 3:07
  CAR3LAC0
• FUMBLE3 PLAYS, 18 YARDS, 1:37
  CAR3LAC0
  • (9:20 - 1st) J.Slye kicks 62 yards from CAR 35 to LAC 3. J.Reed to LAC 26 for 23 yards (J.Slye).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 26
    
    
    (9:11 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler left tackle to LAC 34 for 8 yards (S.Thompson, T.Boston).
  • 2nd & 2 at LAC 34
    
    
    (8:25 - 1st) A.Ekeler right end pushed ob at LAC 44 for 10 yards (R.Douglas; J.Chinn).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 44
    
    
    (7:52 - 1st) J.Herbert sacked at LAC 36 for -8 yards (B.Burns). FUMBLES (B.Burns) [B.Burns], RECOVERED by CAR-T.Whitehead at CAR 45. T.Whitehead to LAC 35 for 20 yards (H.Henry).
• FIELD GOAL7 PLAYS, 29 YARDS, 3:15
  CAR6LAC0
• TOUCHDOWN10 PLAYS, 75 YARDS, 5:14
  CAR6LAC7
  • (4:28 - 1st) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (4:28 - 1st) J.Kelley left tackle to LAC 29 for 4 yards (B.Roy).
  • 2nd & 6 at LAC 29
    
    
    (3:56 - 1st) J.Herbert pass short left to K.Allen to LAC 33 for 4 yards (T.Boston).
  • 3rd & 2 at LAC 33
    
    
    (3:22 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass deep left to H.Henry to LAC 49 for 16 yards (J.Burris).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 49
    
    
    (2:44 - 1st) A.Ekeler right end pushed ob at CAR 47 for 4 yards (S.Thompson).PENALTY on LAC-V.Green, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at 50.
  • 1st & 19 at LAC 40
    
    
    (2:22 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler up the middle to LAC 49 for 9 yards (T.Boston, S.Thompson).
  • 2nd & 10 at LAC 49
    
    
    (1:46 - 1st) J.Herbert pass short left to A.Ekeler pushed ob at CAR 23 for 28 yards (J.Burris).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 23
    
    
    (1:13 - 1st) J.Kelley right guard to CAR 17 for 6 yards (J.Chinn).
  • 2nd & 4 at CAR 17
    
    
    (0:39 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Kelley right tackle to CAR 18 for -1 yards (D.Brown, B.Burns).
  • END QUARTER 1
  • 3rd & 5 at CAR 18
    
    
    (15:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to K.Allen to CAR 12 for 6 yards (D.Jackson).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 12
    
    
    (14:14 - 2nd) Austin Ekeler 12 Yard Rush M.Badgley extra point is GOOD, Center-C.Mazza, Holder-T.Long.
• FIELD GOAL10 PLAYS, 59 YARDS, 6:03
  CAR9LAC7
• FUMBLE3 PLAYS, 30 YARDS, 1:16
  CAR9LAC7
  • (8:11 - 2nd) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (8:11 - 2nd) A.Ekeler right tackle to LAC 28 for 3 yards (S.Thompson).
  • 2nd & 7 at LAC 28
    
    
    (7:39 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short middle to K.Allen to LAC 39 for 11 yards (T.Whitehead; J.Burris) [T.Boston].
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 39
    
    
    (7:05 - 2nd) J.Kelley left tackle to CAR 45 for 16 yards (S.Thompson; T.Boston). FUMBLES (S.Thompson), RECOVERED by CAR-S.Thompson at CAR 43.The Replay Official reviewed the runner was not down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands.
• TOUCHDOWN8 PLAYS, 57 YARDS, 3:57
  CAR15LAC7
• INTERCEPTION8 PLAYS, 37 YARDS, 2:50
  CAR15LAC7
  • (2:58 - 2nd) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (2:58 - 2nd) J.Herbert pass short right to K.Allen to LAC 34 for 9 yards (J.Burris).
  • 2nd & 1 at LAC 34
    
    
    (2:24 - 2nd) A.Ekeler left tackle to LAC 36 for 2 yards (S.Weatherly; J.Chinn).
  • (2:00 - 2nd) Two-Minute Warning
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 36
    
    
    (2:00 - 2nd) J.Herbert pass deep middle to M.Williams to CAR 19 for 45 yards (R.Douglas). LAC-M.Williams was injured during the play. PENALTY on LAC-M.Williams, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at LAC 36 - No Play.
  • (1:52 - 2nd) Timeout #2 by LAC at 01:52.
  • 1st & 20 at LAC 26
    
    
    (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short left to A.Ekeler to LAC 35 for 9 yards (J.Chinn).
  • 2nd & 11 at LAC 35
    
    
    (1:28 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to H.Henry to LAC 45 for 10 yards (S.Thompson; C.Elder).
  • 3rd & 1 at LAC 45
    
    
    (1:01 - 2nd) (No Huddle) J.Kelley left tackle to CAR 48 for 7 yards (B.Roy, S.Thompson).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 48
    
    
    (0:37 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to A.Ekeler to CAR 42 for 6 yards (R.Douglas, J.Chinn).
  • (0:29 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by LAC at 00:29.
  • 2nd & 4 at CAR 42
    
    
    (0:29 - 2nd) J.Herbert scrambles left end ran ob at CAR 38 for 4 yards (C.Elder).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 38
    
    
    (0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short left intended for K.Allen INTERCEPTED by D.Jackson at CAR 26. D.Jackson to LAC 8 for 66 yards (J.Herbert).
• FIELD GOAL2 PLAYS, 4 YARDS, 0:08
  CAR18LAC7
• END QUARTER 2

If you need more tutorials, it will be $100 per session.

[OhioBolt]

I'll say this Rivers was really good when surrounding talent was good around him LT, Floyd, Jackson, Gates, and on the o-line McNiel, Dielman and Hardwick and a good defense. Rivers minus the good o-line was still good, his last two years was not so good.

Herbert has weapons and the oline is just as crappy as it was with Rivers the last two years, but the big difference is Herbert is atheletic, stronger arm, and for a QB not to have played in pre-season games he has impressed despite the fumble and two interceptions. Hebert dam near drove us 99 yards to a game winning TD, under the same circumstance today if Rivers was in this game I have no doubt he would of either got a sack on the drive, or and interception. Herbert is scary good just in his precence and command two games in look at his stats compared to Borrow who started out the gate.Capture.PNG

[chris9341]

So if our running game is fire why do you believe we keep losing?

I would say they are losing mainly because of shitty play calling.

[chris9341]

I'll say this Rivers was really good when surrounding talent was good around him LT, Floyd, Jackson, Gates, and on the o-line McNiel, Dielman and Hardwick and a good defense. Rivers minus the good o-line was still good, his last two years was not so good.

Herbert has weapons and the oline is just as crappy as it was with Rivers the last two years, but the big difference is Herbert is atheletic, stronger arm, and for a QB not to have played in pre-season games he has impressed despite the fumble and two interceptions. Hebert dam near drove us 99 yards to a game winning TD, under the same circumstance today if Rivers was in this game I have no doubt he would of either got a sack on the drive, or and interception. Herbert is scary good just in his precence and command two games in look at his stats compared to Borrow who started out the gate.Capture.PNG

I said in a post here one time that Herbert will be the better QB out of the big 3 drafted this year. Before Burrow's final season at LSU he really hadn't accomplished anything but for one season he has the best season ever for a QB in college. Think just how good Hebert would have been if he had Burrow's or Tua's wr's. I'm glad the Chargers didn't listen to the people who didn't think he was top 5 pick like Todd Mcshay who predicted him to go way later in the draft.

[Guest]

Since you asked. Here are each of our 1st half offensive drives play by play recap.
Were we having any trouble running the ball? We’re we having trouble in passpro?
The issue was committing turnovers that stopped us from scoring on multiple drives.
Learn the game!


PUNT3 PLAYS, 2 YARDS, 0:59
CAR0LAC0

• PUNT3 PLAYS, -11 YARDS, 1:34
  CAR0LAC0
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (14:00 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass incomplete short right to K.Allen (D.Jackson).
  • 2nd & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (13:57 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler right guard to LAC 25 for no gain (D.Brown).
  • 3rd & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (13:18 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert sacked at LAC 14 for -11 yards (M.Haynes).
  • 4th & 21 at LAC 14
    
    
    (12:38 - 1st) T.Long punts 42 yards to CAR 44, Center-C.Mazza. P.Cooper pushed ob at LAC 48 for 8 yards (U.Nwosu).
• FIELD GOAL6 PLAYS, 37 YARDS, 3:07
  CAR3LAC0
• FUMBLE3 PLAYS, 18 YARDS, 1:37
  CAR3LAC0
  • (9:20 - 1st) J.Slye kicks 62 yards from CAR 35 to LAC 3. J.Reed to LAC 26 for 23 yards (J.Slye).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 26
    
    
    (9:11 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler left tackle to LAC 34 for 8 yards (S.Thompson, T.Boston).
  • 2nd & 2 at LAC 34
    
    
    (8:25 - 1st) A.Ekeler right end pushed ob at LAC 44 for 10 yards (R.Douglas; J.Chinn).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 44
    
    
    (7:52 - 1st) J.Herbert sacked at LAC 36 for -8 yards (B.Burns). FUMBLES (B.Burns) [B.Burns], RECOVERED by CAR-T.Whitehead at CAR 45. T.Whitehead to LAC 35 for 20 yards (H.Henry).
• FIELD GOAL7 PLAYS, 29 YARDS, 3:15
  CAR6LAC0
• TOUCHDOWN10 PLAYS, 75 YARDS, 5:14
  CAR6LAC7
  • (4:28 - 1st) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (4:28 - 1st) J.Kelley left tackle to LAC 29 for 4 yards (B.Roy).
  • 2nd & 6 at LAC 29
    
    
    (3:56 - 1st) J.Herbert pass short left to K.Allen to LAC 33 for 4 yards (T.Boston).
  • 3rd & 2 at LAC 33
    
    
    (3:22 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass deep left to H.Henry to LAC 49 for 16 yards (J.Burris).
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 49
    
    
    (2:44 - 1st) A.Ekeler right end pushed ob at CAR 47 for 4 yards (S.Thompson).PENALTY on LAC-V.Green, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at 50.
  • 1st & 19 at LAC 40
    
    
    (2:22 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.Ekeler up the middle to LAC 49 for 9 yards (T.Boston, S.Thompson).
  • 2nd & 10 at LAC 49
    
    
    (1:46 - 1st) J.Herbert pass short left to A.Ekeler pushed ob at CAR 23 for 28 yards (J.Burris).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 23
    
    
    (1:13 - 1st) J.Kelley right guard to CAR 17 for 6 yards (J.Chinn).
  • 2nd & 4 at CAR 17
    
    
    (0:39 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Kelley right tackle to CAR 18 for -1 yards (D.Brown, B.Burns).
  • END QUARTER 1
  • 3rd & 5 at CAR 18
    
    
    (15:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to K.Allen to CAR 12 for 6 yards (D.Jackson).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 12
    
    
    (14:14 - 2nd) Austin Ekeler 12 Yard Rush M.Badgley extra point is GOOD, Center-C.Mazza, Holder-T.Long.
• FIELD GOAL10 PLAYS, 59 YARDS, 6:03
  CAR9LAC7
• FUMBLE3 PLAYS, 30 YARDS, 1:16
  CAR9LAC7
  • (8:11 - 2nd) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (8:11 - 2nd) A.Ekeler right tackle to LAC 28 for 3 yards (S.Thompson).
  • 2nd & 7 at LAC 28
    
    
    (7:39 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short middle to K.Allen to LAC 39 for 11 yards (T.Whitehead; J.Burris) [T.Boston].
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 39
    
    
    (7:05 - 2nd) J.Kelley left tackle to CAR 45 for 16 yards (S.Thompson; T.Boston). FUMBLES (S.Thompson), RECOVERED by CAR-S.Thompson at CAR 43.The Replay Official reviewed the runner was not down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands.
• TOUCHDOWN8 PLAYS, 57 YARDS, 3:57
  CAR15LAC7
• INTERCEPTION8 PLAYS, 37 YARDS, 2:50
  CAR15LAC7
  • (2:58 - 2nd) J.Slye kicks 65 yards from CAR 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 25
    
    
    (2:58 - 2nd) J.Herbert pass short right to K.Allen to LAC 34 for 9 yards (J.Burris).
  • 2nd & 1 at LAC 34
    
    
    (2:24 - 2nd) A.Ekeler left tackle to LAC 36 for 2 yards (S.Weatherly; J.Chinn).
  • (2:00 - 2nd) Two-Minute Warning
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 36
    
    
    (2:00 - 2nd) J.Herbert pass deep middle to M.Williams to CAR 19 for 45 yards (R.Douglas). LAC-M.Williams was injured during the play. PENALTY on LAC-M.Williams, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at LAC 36 - No Play.
  • (1:52 - 2nd) Timeout #2 by LAC at 01:52.
  • 1st & 20 at LAC 26
    
    
    (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short left to A.Ekeler to LAC 35 for 9 yards (J.Chinn).
  • 2nd & 11 at LAC 35
    
    
    (1:28 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to H.Henry to LAC 45 for 10 yards (S.Thompson; C.Elder).
  • 3rd & 1 at LAC 45
    
    
    (1:01 - 2nd) (No Huddle) J.Kelley left tackle to CAR 48 for 7 yards (B.Roy, S.Thompson).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 48
    
    
    (0:37 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short right to A.Ekeler to CAR 42 for 6 yards (R.Douglas, J.Chinn).
  • (0:29 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by LAC at 00:29.
  • 2nd & 4 at CAR 42
    
    
    (0:29 - 2nd) J.Herbert scrambles left end ran ob at CAR 38 for 4 yards (C.Elder).
  • 1st & 10 at CAR 38
    
    
    (0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Herbert pass short left intended for K.Allen INTERCEPTED by D.Jackson at CAR 26. D.Jackson to LAC 8 for 66 yards (J.Herbert).
• FIELD GOAL2 PLAYS, 4 YARDS, 0:08
  CAR18LAC7
• END QUARTER 2

If you need more tutorials, it will be $100 per session.

Thank you for proving my point. They ran the ball more and were less effective than they were on the final four drives when passing the ball was more heavily emphasized, just as I said.

[Critty]

A lot of analysis..... but you and I know if they don't turn it over...both run and pass were working and the team was driving.

22 of Herbert pass attempts were on final two drives of 4th qtr to catch up. Prior to that they were balancing run and pass. And it worked well until the turnover ended the momentum.

No matter how pass happy the league is.
Balance attack and strong running game matter.
The best teams in redzone efficiency typically have a solid run game. Titans were #1 in redzone last season.

[gzubeck]

A lot of analysis..... but you and I know if they don't turn it over...both run and pass were working and the team was driving.

22 of Herbert pass attempts were on final two drives of 4th qtr to catch up. Prior to that they were balancing run and pass. And it worked well until the turnover ended the momentum.

No matter how pass happy the league is.
Balance attack and strong running game matter.
The best teams in redzone efficiency typically have a solid run game. Titans were #1 in redzone last season.

Go ahead...put Tyrod Taylor in the starting role and you will see how bad he is with an emaciated defense. He had a fresh defense in the bengals game. How many defenders are we down now and how will that affect us going forward? I don't see going 3 and out as good either and will likely be equivalent to 2 turnovers per game. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

:2cents:

[gzubeck]

You really don’t understand football.
Your written fluff is like reading an addict’s attempts to tell you he can stop anytime. Word salad vomit.
You go on with your quack analysis. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to teach you. You simply don’t have the capability to learn.
We are not drafting TL even if we have the #1 pick. Get over it.

No need to be caustic to posters here. I'm open minded concerning options for the chargers. Maybe we have to pass more including quick screens and shovel passes to keep defenders at bay!

[SuperCharged]

Settle down fellow bolts brothers......:cuss::cuss::cuss:

The run game is fine. Balance is always better than heavy run or pass. Mainly because you can game plan for that.

I can tell you why they kept pounding the rock. They were trying to wear down the D line. That is fine. The game would have been vastly different had Kelly not coughed it up. Yet it was a tough break. You can't fault him it was a good play coming from behind for the strip.

1-2 and I am still having more fun watching the Chargers with all these young weapons then I have the last few years. The rookies are only going to get better.

Rookies - Herbert int. Kelly fumble, KJ Hill 2 drops. All game killers.

The #1 concern for me is the O-line. The way it's going we're going to be practice squad scouting for new O-linemen.

Just enjoy this new chapter in Charger football. It looks promising as hell.