2021 Official Chargers Season Discusssion

[foreigner]

I agree 100%. I really liked Johnson and agree he showed more that Guyton, and I like him too but they are not MW. He brings a skillset that is so different and unique, it cannot be taught (see Tyrell Williams who was 6'5" and could not do what MW does) MW is essentially never covered.

I hope they extend MW and keep Johnson and Guyton. Its good to have a variety of skillsets in your receiver group.

Wise words my friend... MW needs a figure to lead him... a good HC.

[dmac_bolt]

I wouldn't say that is the reason. It may be part of it but it isn't the only reason at all.
They run different routes, Keenan gets the shorter routes and is a first down machine and likely is the first progression more times than not. He also plays in the slot. MW is usually always outside.

I don't think Telesco would say what he does about him or offer him a fifth year option if he didn't get open half the time. Silly argument imo.

MW is on the outside because he can’t be effective in the slot. KA can play inside or out and be effective anywhere they put him - because he can separate from defenders. And he’s not even faster, he’s probably slower beyond 10 yards.

HH is more valuable to Herb than MW is. MW is a solid WR and I’m fine with him wearing a bolt. But they can replace him and >$10M fixes a huge hole on the OL that would make every receiver better. HH is perhaps top 6-8 in the league? Top 10 at worst? MW isn’t even top 20.

[Boltjolt]

MW is on the outside because he can’t be effective in the slot. KA can play inside or out and be effective anywhere they put him - because he can separate from defenders. And he’s not even faster, he’s probably slower beyond 10 yards.

HH is more valuable to Herb than MW is. MW is a solid WR and I’m fine with him wearing a bolt. But they can replace him and >$10M fixes a huge hole on the OL that would make every receiver better. HH is perhaps top 6-8 in the league? Top 10 at worst? MW isn’t even top 20.

That's why Keenan gets those short routes because his short quickness is elite and why he excels in the slot. Not every WR is best in the slot and why it's good to have different skilled players.

Keenan isn't going to beat anybody deep unless they fall down.

[Topcat]

Doesn't matter how much anybody is getting paid. Doesn't matter who's designated where on the depth chart. All that matters is performance. And I say Johnson is going to have a breakout season and be the second best WR on the roster behind Keenan Allen.

I agree Johnson showed a lot this past season. He has the potential to break out, if he gets the targets. Not just a one trick pony--he showed he can run a variety of routes in the tree. I like Mike Will, but too many injuries, and he's gonna want bank for his second deal. Let him test the market, then we'll see.

[MagicMamba88]

[Bolt4Knob]

Yep I saw that.

Looks like TE is now a need

The Chargers have Keenan, they have Williams and if they kept Henry -thats a lot of money in the receiver room. So yes, losing Hunter Henry would create a hole but I have always thought for the Chargers to get to where they need to be, either Williams or Henry would need to move on so those dollars can be used for OL, Edge and CB in free agency. The Chargers needed upgrades at all three positions. So yes, losing a top 5 TE will be tough - but what if the OLine goes from bottom of the league to middle of the pack and you add an edge rusher that is better than Melvin Ingram was last year.

[like54ninjas]

The Chargers have Keenan, they have Williams and if they kept Henry -thats a lot of money in the receiver room. So yes, losing Hunter Henry would create a hole but I have always thought for the Chargers to get to where they need to be, either Williams or Henry would need to move on so those dollars can be used for OL, Edge and CB in free agency. The Chargers needed upgrades at all three positions. So yes, losing a top 5 TE will be tough - but what if the OLine goes from bottom of the league to middle of the pack and you add an edge rusher that is better than Melvin Ingram was last year.

TE is a deep position group in this draft.

[Bolt4Knob]

MW is on the outside because he can’t be effective in the slot. KA can play inside or out and be effective anywhere they put him - because he can separate from defenders. And he’s not even faster, he’s probably slower beyond 10 yards.

HH is more valuable to Herb than MW is. MW is a solid WR and I’m fine with him wearing a bolt. But they can replace him and >$10M fixes a huge hole on the OL that would make every receiver better. HH is perhaps top 6-8 in the league? Top 10 at worst? MW isn’t even top 20.

I would rather keep HH over MW as to your point above, I think Hunter is the better pure football player. But if the dollars do not align, let him test the market - the Chargers shouldn't overpay and that means like Kittle/Kelce money (granted, hopefully they can get a long term deal done with MW). But as long as they take the $10m or so allocated for Henry (plus Turner so thats over $20m) and get a player like Linsley with a solid RG like Feiler and add an Edge rusher - than the loss of Hunter Henry can be lessened (especially if you sign a TE like Rudolph or maybe Ertz on a short term deal while drafting a guy like Tremble if you have taken care of OL in free agency)


Its just reallocating the cap is the way I see and OL/Rusher need upgrades

[JOJAX85]

They could be planning to try to sign him to a long-term deal.

Maybe. Just seems like they would've done that already if that was there plan.

[eaterfan]

I would rather keep HH over MW as to your point above, I think Hunter is the better pure football player. But if the dollars do not align, let him test the market - the Chargers shouldn't overpay and that means like Kittle/Kelce money (granted, hopefully they can get a long term deal done with MW). But as long as they take the $10m or so allocated for Henry (plus Turner so thats over $20m) and get a player like Linsley with a solid RG like Feiler and add an Edge rusher - than the loss of Hunter Henry can be lessened (especially if you sign a TE like Rudolph or maybe Ertz on a short term deal while drafting a guy like Tremble if you have taken care of OL in free agency)


Its just reallocating the cap is the way I see and OL/Rusher need upgrades

Completely disagree with you here. How much should HH be paid? $9-$10 million? So $13 is a $3-$4 million overpay. There aren't any TEs out there near HH's ability in FA. People like this draft class, but beyond Pitts, I don't. Our roster has Donald Parham on it (that's it for in house options). MW is a decent receiver and he'd probably get $10-$12 on the open market so we're overpaying him by about an equal amount. Now let's look at how replaceable he is. The FA class is pretty good. The draft class could produce starters into the 4th round. Our in house options are Johnson, Guyton, Hill and Reid. Johnson has just as high a ceiling as Parham, relatively, and Guyton is close. Plus, the advantage of having a QB on a rookie deal is that you can slightly overpay FAs. FA is mostly paying B players, A player money. We have the money to spend. I've advocated spending money on a bunch of C players for F type money, but you can still do that and keep HH even at one year $13.

I just don't understand letting HH walk for the possibility of $3-$4 million. The Chargers have one advantage over teams like Jacksonville, New England, or the Jets. The Chargers were the only ones who could negotiate with him. Now that's over and it's going to cost them a lot more money to sign him long term.

[Bolt4Knob]

Completely disagree with you here. How much should HH be paid? $9-$10 million? So $13 is a $3-$4 million overpay. There aren't any TEs out there near HH's ability in FA. People like this draft class, but beyond Pitts, I don't. Our roster has Donald Parham on it (that's it for in house options). MW is a decent receiver and he'd probably get $10-$12 on the open market so we're overpaying him by about an equal amount. Now let's look at how replaceable he is. The FA class is pretty good. The draft class could produce starters into the 4th round. Our in house options are Johnson, Guyton, Hill and Reid. Johnson has just as high a ceiling as Parham, relatively, and Guyton is close. Plus, the advantage of having a QB on a rookie deal is that you can slightly overpay FAs. FA is mostly paying B players, A player money. We have the money to spend. I've advocated spending money on a bunch of C players for F type money, but you can still do that and keep HH even at one year $13.

I just don't understand letting HH walk for the possibility of $3-$4 million. The Chargers have one advantage over teams like Jacksonville, New England, or the Jets. The Chargers were the only ones who could negotiate with him. Now that's over and it's going to cost them a lot more money to sign him long term.

I am on record as saying keep HH over Mike Williams. He is a better football player - regardless of where he ranks as a TE compared to MW as a WR - but yes, HH is top 6 TE and MW is around the 45-50 mark as a WR I would probably pay Henry something like 12.5m per year but maybe he just needs to test the market to see what other teams will pay him. The Chargers are the only team that can pay him but they truly do not know what the market will pay him

If its between paying HH 12.5 per year or MW 12.5m per year - its a no brainer, pay Hunter Henry

My point was more that if Hunter Henry does leave - that frees up a bunch of cap space to build up another roster position and than go out and find a good solid TE for cheaper.

And sorry, when I mention $10m - thats cap hit not AAV - my mistake. I don't care about AAV when it comes to contracts, its all cap hit.

[wu-dai clan]

Ship is sailing...it's MW over HH.