Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[equivocation]

Juju Smith Schuster 4.54 with a 32.5" vert
Josh Gordon 4.52. 1646 yards on 18.9 ypc back in 2013 before he imploded.

[AK47]

Gallup 4.45
Evans 4.53
Thielen 4.49
Diggs 4.46
Jefferson 4.43 (combine) and 4.50 (pro day)
Palmer 4.51

THESE ARE ALL ESSENTIALLY THE SAME

Unless you're specifically looking for a burner........I've put the 40-time lower in my WR Draft barometer over the years. My ideal WR has above average size, good 3-cone, runs the whole route tree, and has 10-inch hands. These guys meet the criteria.

DeAndre Hopkins
ODB
Keenan Allen
Michael Thomas (6.80 3-cone) makes up for slow 40
Stefon Diggs
Amari Cooper


Josh Palmer's hand size is 9-5/8 which is just about there considering he checks the other boxes. Hence why I digged his pick in the 3rd.

[dmac_bolt]

The correct answer is Palmer 3, Johnson 4, Guyton on PS learning how to hold on to the ball.

[DragonIce]

Chain versus the Gang

See if he comes back for more ChainGang action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3uf5V0pDA

[Guest]

You are writing him off as having the upside to be a #2 after one preseason game. I'm not sure what you are basing that off of. He averaged 15.3 yards per catch in college compared to 15.4 yards per catch for Williams (and Williams had the luxury of Deshaun Watson as his QB while Palmer had Jarrett Guarantano as his QB). Palmer ran a 4.51 40. Williams ran a 4.49 and a 4.56. They both have a big catch radius and strong hands. I see very little difference between them so far.

Your representation of my view is inaccurate.

My view of Palmer has not changed at all since before the draft. I did not see him as a starting caliber WR then and I do not now.

By the way, I have not viewed Rountree as a starting caliber RB since before the draft either and he had a much better game than Palmer did on Saturday night.

I think the college stats mean almost nothing. Mike Williams was always viewed as a first round pick (maybe not 1/7, but definitely a first round guy). Most people had Palmer as either a round 4 or a round 5 player. There is simply a difference in talent level that favors Williams.

And regarding the QBs, Tennessee's QBs made a bunch of perfect passes to a well covered Palmer on a number of Palmer's bigger plays. I think it was good that Palmer made those catches, but credit goes to the QB on a number of those plays.

[Guest]

The correct answer is Palmer 3, Johnson 4, Guyton on PS learning how to hold on to the ball.

Given our team and Herbert, it should be Guyton 3, Johnson 4, and Palmer 5. Guyton's alleged hands issue has been beyond overstated on this forum. There were a few drops and also some great catches that other WRs would not have been able to catch. Guyton's hands are just fine.

People talk about Guyton and yet nobody has said a word about McKitty and his 14+% drop rate (1 in 7 catchable passes), claiming that he was this great blocker/receiver when really he is not all that great at either.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

And regarding the QBs, Tennessee's QBs made a bunch of perfect passes to a well covered Palmer on a number of Palmer's bigger plays. I think it was good that Palmer made those catches, but credit goes to the QB on a number of those plays.

I don't think so. A big part of Palmer's narrative is that his numbers were mediocre, precisely because Tennessee had such awful quarterbacking.

Palmer attracted a lot off attention when he played well against Asante Samuel and Patrick Surtain, despite having a poor QB throwing him the ball.

[SuperCharged]

^ This. I don't think we'll see Herbie playing hero ball like PR, and forcing the rock into coverage...

Heeeeey now.... Why the shade at PR? He left it all on the field and careerwise his numbers speak for themselves. Love PR I hope he has a stellar coaching career.

[Bolt Dude]

I don't think so. A big part of Palmer's narrative is that his numbers were mediocre, precisely because Tennessee had such awful quarterbacking.

Palmer attracted a lot off attention when he played well against Asante Samuel and Patrick Surtain, despite having a poor QB throwing him the ball.

And Stokes and Campbell. All these guys were 1-2 rounders.

[SuperCharged]

Though I think your take on Mike Williams is flawed and undervalues him (do you really think Mike Williams is not a 1,000 yard receiver on another team that has a less featured WR1), I am not suggesting that Mike Williams is worth $18M per season. I am suggesting that he is significantly better than Palmer. Maybe Palmer proves me wrong this year, but that is how I see it so far.

So, if the plan is to use Palmer to replace Williams, we need a new plan. Teams generally do not get better by getting worse.

My view is that Palmer potentially represents great quality as a #5 WR. He does not represent great quality as a #2 WR.

Thus, in my view, it would be useful to draft a Mike Williams replacement with an early pick in next year's draft, assuming that Mike Williams and the team cannot work out a new contract.

I can tell you he is the filler for MW. This is a make or break season for MW. If Palmer balls out as a rookie that does make MW expendable.

No one disputes his size, speed and athleticism. He just isn't consistent.

1. He's gone over 1000 yards once. (1001yds)
2. He's never caught more that 50 balls in a season. (48)

Those are 2 huge states for wr's. Those are some pedestrian numbers.

I want him to be awesome. If he tears it up this year he'll get a contract.. If he doesn't break 50 catches. and has under something like 800 yds I just don't see him being re-signed.

[Guest]

Here's chainy with another gish gallop.

3 of his 6 catches were contested catches on 3rd down just past the line of gain. Anyone who watched the game should know this. A blind assertion that his catches were against soft coverage suggests to me that you just didn't watch the game or are willfully ignoring that half of his catches don't fit your description. You're not going to convince anyone who actually watched the game to simply disregard what they saw in favor of your assertion.

2nd, he was making catches against the 3/4 CBs on the Rams. Yeah, it wasn't Jalen Ramsey. Jalen Ramsey is likely going to be covering KA. Palmer was going against the level of player he will see in a real game.

3rd, Palmer is nothing like Williams (what?) Williams is more a poor man's Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson (not meaning this as a knock, but he's clearly not as good as them and never will be). Palmer's measurables and tape are most similar to Michael Thomas. These are very different receiver types.

4.51 is fast enough to threaten downfield. (See: Michael Thomas at 4.57) There are more ways than one to get open. Guyton runs a 4.39. Is it really that different? Less than a step 25 yards downfield?

He runs good routes and has good moves. See the dagger route he ran vs Adderley or the hook he ran in the pre season game vs tight coverage. Just asserting he doesn't have good moves doesn't make it so.

Palmer's receptions were short passes against not great coverage from reserves. That is what I saw. Sorry, not buying any of the nonsense you are offering on that point. He looked good against reserves on the little short passes, but that showing is not enough to move the needle in any direction.

Further, he is actually being discussed by some as a potential replacement for Williams next year. So, yeah, he would have to show that he could succeed against #1 and #2 CBs to prove his worth in that regard. And I completely agree with you that the two receivers are of different types. That is part of why I think the comparisons are absurd. Others are the ones trying to suggest to the contrary.

Guyton and Johnson are faster and quicker than Palmer. And yes, 1-2 steps can make a huge difference in terms of being open or covered on longer pass patterns. And to be clear, I am not suggesting that Palmer's speed is a liability. It is just not the asset that it is for Guyton and Palmer. Guyton and Palmer are better suited to Herbert's deep passing game. The team needs to not screw with that.

Palmer does not excel when it comes to moves. Nobody is going to mistake him for Keenan Allen in that respect. His Senior Bowl reps demonstrated a general inability to gain separation on a number of plays. And this was particularly bad against press coverage. I remember thinking when I saw a couple of his reps that he was chopping his steps so much near the line of scrimmage that it looked like he was performing a stationary tire drill.

Palmer could show better and prove me wrong, but he has not done anything so far to demonstrate that he has potential as a starting WR in the NFL any more than Rountree did on Saturday night and Rountree had a better game than Palmer.

[DragonIce]

I think the college stats mean almost nothing. Mike Williams was always viewed as a first round pick (maybe not 1/7, but definitely a first round guy). Most people had Palmer as either a round 4 or a round 5 player. There is simply a difference in talent level that favors Williams.

All the pundits said this draft's receiver class was ***stacked***. It's easy to see how Palmer, who had 4 different Quarterbacks (all lame) throwing him the ball was overlooked.

I guess you are one of the guys who's views are inflexibly locked based on draft slot selection. Chase Claypool and D.K. Metcalf will always be late 2nd round talent. Julian Edelman will always be 7th round second-hand store scrap.

Tom Brady? Perpetual backup.

Sounds like someone who is hesitant to observe, analyze and re-calibrate one's opinion. Daniel Jeremiah said Palmer was a star of the Senior Bowl. The guy has consistently produced in practices/scrimmages. And in limited action he played well vrs. Rams.