Welcome SupaMel, Maybe

[chargeroo]

I agree with Xenos - if the Bolts wanted him back, he be signed by now. I still like him though.

[WindsorUK]

Pass......

[DragonIce]

that's how meaningless PFF stats are.

PFF rankings aren't 'stats'. They are play-by-play evaluations. I'd value that above sacks totals, esp. for abbreviated Covid season.

I haven't watched enough of Ingram to put any value in my own opinion. It does seem based on a variety of metrics that his play has declined, as one would expect for 10-year vet. I'd just guess there is a price-point where it would make sense to bring him back.

[Boltjolt]

PFF rankings aren't 'stats'. They are play-by-play evaluations. I'd value that above sacks totals, esp. for abbreviated Covid season.

I haven't watched enough of Ingram to put any value in my own opinion. It does seem based on a variety of metrics that his play has declined, as one would expect for 10-year vet. I'd just guess there is a price-point where it would make sense to bring him back.

They are stats. Play by play or otherwise, its a stat.

You cant tell me that a guy who played in 7 games and had zero sacks and only 5 QB hits had a better evaluation than a guy playing 16 games and had 8 sacks and 18 QB hits.

Houston only played in 65% of the Colts snaps...in both seasons he was at 65% (according to this SI article https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/in...fl-free-agents) he was with them and he got 19 sacks in those 2 seasons combined. Mels last 3 seasons he only had 14.

Sorry, im a PFF opponent. I think they have wonky, meaningless stats. There are some i look at and think its usefull but most of them are poppycock.

[Guest]

They are stats. Play by play or otherwise, its a stat.

You cant tell me that a guy who played in 7 games and had zero sacks and only 5 QB hits had a better evaluation than a guy playing 16 games and had 8 sacks and 18 QB hits.

Houston only played in 65% of the Colts snaps...in both seasons he was at 65% (according to this SI article https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/in...fl-free-agents) he was with them and he got 19 sacks in those 2 seasons combined. Mels last 3 seasons he only had 14.

Sorry, im a PFF opponent. I think they have wonky, meaningless stats. There are some i look at and think its usefull but most of them are poppycock.

A player can perform at a better rate than another player that plays more games. Again, there is nothing inconsistent about that.

Pressures are traditionally defined as a pass rush that forces the QB to reset his feet. Ingram did that a greater percentage of the time than Houston did, even while injured. In fact, Houston's pressure rate was under 10%, the lowest of his career.

I would put much more stock in that trend as a basis to believe that Houston is in decline than I would in Ingram's injury. One is likely to be better in 2021 than he was in 2020. The other is not.

PFF actually ran an article stating that there would be people that would overvalue Houston and undervalue Ingram precisely because of their sack totals.

Since Ingram was injured last season and was already arguably better than Houston, if healthy, I think it is likely that he will be better than Houston in 2021.

I like adding Ingram on a team friendly deal with an opportunity to compete with Nwosu for snaps.

[DragonIce]

They are stats. Play by play or otherwise, its a stat.

Sorry but you are incorrect here.

PFF is a grade based on analysis of each play, absolutely not a stat.

Here from PFF Website:

GRADES VS. STATS


We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet. Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch.

PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded.

The same is true for most positions. Statistics can be misleading. A tackle whose quarterback gets the ball out of his hands quicker than anybody else may not give up many sacks, but he can still be beaten often and earn a poor grade. Receivers that are targeted relentlessly could post big-time numbers but may offer little more than the product of a volume-based aerial attack.

[DragonIce]

I agree with Xenos - if the Bolts wanted him back, he be signed by now. I still like him though.

True, unless they are waiting for the player's agent to be more amenable.

Let's keep in mind: 32 teams haven't signed him and it's May 31. Perhaps there is a gap between Ingram & agent's value estimation and the 32 league GMs.

[Xenos]

True, unless they are waiting for the player's agent to be more amenable.

Let's keep in mind: 32 teams haven't signed him and it's May 31. Perhaps there is a gap between Ingram & agent's value estimation and the 32 league GMs.

I’m sure it’s the same reasons some of the big name FA like Houston and Sherman are available. Wrong side of 30 in a low cap year.

[Boltjolt]

A player can perform at a better rate than another player that plays more games. Again, there is nothing inconsistent about that.

Pressures are traditionally defined as a pass rush that forces the QB to reset his feet. Ingram did that a greater percentage of the time than Houston did, even while injured. In fact, Houston's pressure rate was under 10%, the lowest of his career.

I would put much more stock in that trend as a basis to believe that Houston is in decline than I would in Ingram's injury. One is likely to be better in 2021 than he was in 2020. The other is not.

PFF actually ran an article stating that there would be people that would overvalue Houston and undervalue Ingram precisely because of their sack totals.

Since Ingram was injured last season and was already arguably better than Houston, if healthy, I think it is likely that he will be better than Houston in 2021.

I like adding Ingram on a team friendly deal with an opportunity to compete with Nwosu for snaps.

Houston has been better than Ingram pretty much every year. Both are in decline, that's not a debate.

Mel wasn't anything spectacular the season before where Houston again had better sack and QB hit totals and I wanted us to trade him before last season.

Don't want Mel at all, I'd take Houston at a team friendly deal.
Mel only makes sense for the vet min if 1.05 mil.

[Boltjolt]

Sorry but you are incorrect here.

PFF is a grade based on analysis of each play, absolutely not a stat.

Here from PFF Website:

GRADES VS. STATS


We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet. Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch.

PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded.

The same is true for most positions. Statistics can be misleading. A tackle whose quarterback gets the ball out of his hands quicker than anybody else may not give up many sacks, but he can still be beaten often and earn a poor grade. Receivers that are targeted relentlessly could post big-time numbers but may offer little more than the product of a volume-based aerial attack.

Pretty funny as I've seen PFF make grades on players that don't tell the whole story whike they come up with their grade.
Just not a fan of PFF.

[Boltgang74]

Houston has been better than Ingram pretty much every year. Both are in decline, that's not a debate.

Mel wasn't anything spectacular the season before where Houston again had better sack and QB hit totals and I wanted us to trade him before last season.

Don't want Mel at all, I'd take Houston at a team friendly deal.
Mel only makes sense for the vet min if 1.05 mil.

Totally agree

[Maniaque 6]

Houston has been better than Ingram pretty much every year. Both are in decline, that's not a debate.

Mel wasn't anything spectacular the season before where Houston again had better sack and QB hit totals and I wanted us to trade him before last season.

Don't want Mel at all, I'd take Houston at a team friendly deal.
Mel only makes sense for the vet min if 1.05 mil.

Outch !!!