Lindy's 2021 Pro Football Review: LAC #5 in Trenches & Other Rankings

[like54ninjas]

wait - what? When did this happen? What the hell, when was someone going to tell us?

fuck the donkeys - i don’t care if they are secretly the Patriots and have a fistful of rings, they can go fuck the horse they road in on. So what if horseface got a ring via Manning? He can suck off his mascot for all i care.

Very well said!
Fuck the Donkies!

[Steve]

If your goal was to lose and get a top 5 pick then this would be a good strategy. Tebow was a winner as a QB, Lock is a loser. But Lock will have a higher completion percentage and better numbers (except winning %) while loosing big, so there is that.

Denver would have won a whole lot more games no matter who was QB if they had the kind of running game from back then and the same dominant D. Denver has a good, but not great D, and their offense is not that good run or pass, and it isn't just the QB. Lock probably isn't the answer, but Denver is not exactly helping him by not having very good talent around him.

You can say all you want about winning percentage (or winning in general), but Tebow was an option offense QB in one of the few NFL teams that ran an option offense. They didn't have the receivers to have a good passing game, so they had to run, and that is what made Tebow such a good fit. Throw in a little play action to some developing, but raw WR, and it fit what they could do.

But if you asked Tebow to stand back, and throw the ball 50 times per game, he would lose spectacularly. Lock would be a decent enough QB if you took the game out of his hands and had the running game carry the load. But their D isn't good enough to win that way (or wasn't last year with Miller out). Lock had to make plays, and behind their line, he was not up to the challenge.

Tebow won a ton of games by wearing down a defense over the coarse of a game, pounding the rock between the tackles in a 1 score game, then he would score a TD late in the game, when they would spread the D out and then when they left their pass rushers on the field (gassed after playing run D all game), Tebow could run through the spread out D in 2 minute and make it look easy. But the teams that sat back didn't rush him hard, and contained him, making him throw beat him. We did it with Manusky and we sucked then. Belichik crushed him and made it look easy. Add in that a lot of players were really out of shape that year, because there was no off-season, very little working on fundamentals and tackling, and it was the perfect year for a guy like Tebow to shine. But it was not going to be sustained.

Fast forward to today, Jackson is a much better fit now. He doesn't run as much, and he protects himself by not running as much as Tebow did. He can exploit the smaller holes with his much, much better speed. Jackson is a much better passer than Tebow, and the Ravens have a much better O built around him. Factor in how few good LB have come out of college the last few years, the ravens have a lot more sustainable success. Still, despite all of that, they have had no post-season success.

[FoutsFan]

Denver would have won a whole lot more games no matter who was QB if they had the kind of running game from back then and the same dominant D. Denver has a good, but not great D, and their offense is not that good run or pass, and it isn't just the QB. Lock probably isn't the answer, but Denver is not exactly helping him by not having very good talent around him.

You can say all you want about winning percentage (or winning in general), but Tebow was an option offense QB in one of the few NFL teams that ran an option offense. They didn't have the receivers to have a good passing game, so they had to run, and that is what made Tebow such a good fit. Throw in a little play action to some developing, but raw WR, and it fit what they could do.

But if you asked Tebow to stand back, and throw the ball 50 times per game, he would lose spectacularly. Lock would be a decent enough QB if you took the game out of his hands and had the running game carry the load. But their D isn't good enough to win that way (or wasn't last year with Miller out). Lock had to make plays, and behind their line, he was not up to the challenge.

Tebow won a ton of games by wearing down a defense over the coarse of a game, pounding the rock between the tackles in a 1 score game, then he would score a TD late in the game, when they would spread the D out and then when they left their pass rushers on the field (gassed after playing run D all game), Tebow could run through the spread out D in 2 minute and make it look easy. But the teams that sat back didn't rush him hard, and contained him, making him throw beat him. We did it with Manusky and we sucked then. Belichik crushed him and made it look easy. Add in that a lot of players were really out of shape that year, because there was no off-season, very little working on fundamentals and tackling, and it was the perfect year for a guy like Tebow to shine. But it was not going to be sustained.

Fast forward to today, Jackson is a much better fit now. He doesn't run as much, and he protects himself by not running as much as Tebow did. He can exploit the smaller holes with his much, much better speed. Jackson is a much better passer than Tebow, and the Ravens have a much better O built around him. Factor in how few good LB have come out of college the last few years, the ravens have a lot more sustainable success. Still, despite all of that, they have had no post-season success.

Agree. I am not defending Tebow as a pro QB. He was what he was and that was a one trick pony that worked well to beat most average to good teams. The real good teams as you said crushed him much like with Kapernick. The NFL learned how to defend him and he looked bad and refused to adjust. My only difference is you have a much higher opinion of Lock than I do. I think he is a tick better pazser than Tebow and can't run so he is pretty much useless.

[Boltdiehard]

It doesn't matter how good the rest of your roster is if your QB sucks. Drew Lock sucks. Unless DEN got Rodgers when I was asleep they're still a 5 win team with a crappy QB.

:toyou:

Fuck Denver

[Guest]

If your goal was to lose and get a top 5 pick then this would be a good strategy. Tebow was a winner as a QB, Lock is a loser. But Lock will have a higher completion percentage and better numbers (except winning %) while loosing big, so there is that.

Tebow had a great team except for Tebow. The Broncos won in spite of him, not because of him. In Tebow's 11 regular season starts, which included 3 OT wins, the defense gave up 15 points or less 6 times. Tebow's offense scored 18 points or less 8 times in those 11 games and yet the Broncos won 5 of those 8 games. Tebow topped 200 yards passing twice and had no 250+ yard games. Tebow only completed 46.5% of his passes and finished with a QB rating of 72.9.

By contrast, Lock's team was garbage last year. Jeudy was hands of stone. Other WRs were injured. Lindsay missed a bunch of games with injury. Their defense was not very good (bottom 10 in points allowed).

Team wins and losses mean jack squat when it comes to how good an individual player is playing.

Nobody is saying that Lock is great, but his upside is way better than Tebow's.

[FoutsFan]

Tebow had a great team except for Tebow. The Broncos won in spite of him, not because of him. In Tebow's 11 regular season starts, which included 3 OT wins, the defense gave up 15 points or less 6 times. Tebow's offense scored 18 points or less 8 times in those 11 games and yet the Broncos won 5 of those 8 games. Tebow topped 200 yards passing twice and had no 250+ yard games. Tebow only completed 46.5% of his passes and finished with a QB rating of 72.9.

By contrast, Lock's team was garbage last year. Jeudy was hands of stone. Other WRs were injured. Lindsay missed a bunch of games with injury. Their defense was not very good (bottom 10 in points allowed).

Team wins and losses mean jack squat when it comes to how good an individual player is playing.

Nobody is saying that Lock is great, but his upside is way better than Tebow's.

I disagree on a trash Bronco team Lock was the biggest pile of trash on it. Tebow was not that good overall, but he came through when it mattered and he did not turn the ball over. Brock Oswiler took that "loaded" Bronco team to 1-4, they ended up 8-8 when Tebow took over so it looks like Tebow was not as bad as you are making him out to be. If the "loaded" Bronco team could carry Tebow and win in spite of him surely they could win in spite of Oswiler right?

Lock is the opposite of Tebow, he shows a tiny bit of ability but gets worse as it matters more. From all accounts Lock is a garbage teammate as well whereas Tebow has been noted as a great teammate.

All in all Lock is just terrible and its a bad thing that he is not even as good as Tebow. That is saying something for sure.

[Guest]

I disagree on a trash Bronco team Lock was the biggest pile of trash on it. Tebow was not that good overall, but he came through when it mattered and he did not turn the ball over. Brock Oswiler took that "loaded" Bronco team to 1-4, they ended up 8-8 when Tebow took over so it looks like Tebow was not as bad as you are making him out to be. If the "loaded" Bronco team could carry Tebow and win in spite of him surely they could win in spite of Oswiler right?

Lock is the opposite of Tebow, he shows a tiny bit of ability but gets worse as it matters more. From all accounts Lock is a garbage teammate as well whereas Tebow has been noted as a great teammate.

All in all Lock is just terrible and its a bad thing that he is not even as good as Tebow. That is saying something for sure.

Osweiler was not the QB before Tebow, Kyle Orton was. Orton actually finished the season with a better QB rating than Tebow did. In the 5 games Orton started in 2011, the Broncos scored 20+ points 4 times. Orton played as good or better than Tebow, but the team lost because the defense yielded an average of 28 points allowed in those games. The defense hit its stride later in the season. That had nothing to do with the inept Tebow. Tebow was McDaniels' guy all the way, so the fact that he played means nothing either. McDaniels was the moron that caused Cutler to be traded.

Again, team wins mean absolutely nothing when it comes to assessing individual performance. Teams win for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with good QB play.

Tebow's stats tell the whole story. He was awful and his team won anyway. They did not win because of Tebow. Again, the team won 5 games when the Tebow led offense scored 18 or less points.

Osweiler played over Peyton Manning in Manning's last year when Manning sucked. Later in the year, the roles were reversed. Lock is better than Tebow, Orton and Osweiler.

Tebow's status as a teammate is totally irrelevant. He sucks as a player.

Lock is like Cutler. He is a jerk with some ability (though not as much as Cutler).

Again, I am not saying that Lock is not a lesser player. I am only saying he is better than Tebow, which is obvious and not even a close call. Lock could be even worse and still be better than Tebow. Seriously, Tebow's completion percentage has to be the lowest among all starters that started at least half of a season at any time this century. He was that bad.

[FoutsFan]

Osweiler was not the QB before Tebow, Kyle Orton was. Orton actually finished the season with a better QB rating than Tebow did. In the 5 games Orton started in 2011, the Broncos scored 20+ points 4 times. Orton played as good or better than Tebow, but the team lost because the defense yielded an average of 28 points allowed in those games. The defense hit its stride later in the season. That had nothing to do with the inept Tebow. Tebow was McDaniels' guy all the way, so the fact that he played means nothing either. McDaniels was the moron that caused Cutler to be traded.

Again, team wins mean absolutely nothing when it comes to assessing individual performance. Teams win for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with good QB play.

Tebow's stats tell the whole story. He was awful and his team won anyway. They did not win because of Tebow. Again, the team won 5 games when the Tebow led offense scored 18 or less points.

Osweiler played over Peyton Manning in Manning's last year when Manning sucked. Later in the year, the roles were reversed. Lock is better than Tebow, Orton and Osweiler.

Tebow's status as a teammate is totally irrelevant. He sucks as a player.

Lock is like Cutler. He is a jerk with some ability (though not as much as Cutler).

Again, I am not saying that Lock is not a lesser player. I am only saying he is better than Tebow, which is obvious and not even a close call. Lock could be even worse and still be better than Tebow. Seriously, Tebow's completion percentage has to be the lowest among all starters that started at least half of a season at any time this century. He was that bad.

Orton, Oswiler, whatever, interchangeable suckiness.

I was just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. The team was so great they went they went 7-4 with Tebow as QB and carried him all the way. Yet that same team sucked so bad they let down the great Kyle Orton who played like Johnny Unitas.

Got it. Broncos great with Tebow, Broncos suck with Orton. But Orton was the better QB that year. It is all coming together now. I see how the QB position has nothing to do with the team record, as someone who has played QB I never knew we had so little to do with the game, you learn something new everyday. Thanks

[Guest]

Orton, Oswiler, whatever, interchangeable suckiness.

I was just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. The team was so great they went they went 7-4 with Tebow as QB and carried him all the way. Yet that same team sucked so bad they let down the great Kyle Orton who played like Johnny Unitas.

Got it. Broncos great with Tebow, Broncos suck with Orton. But Orton was the better QB that year. It is all coming together now. I see how the QB position has nothing to do with the team record, as someone who has played QB I never knew we had so little to do with the game, you learn something new everyday. Thanks

The...defense...gelled...as...the...season...progr essed.

Orton played slightly better Tebow and the team had a worse record. What does that tell you? It says that there was another variable in play. The defense got better as the season progressed.

Do you grasp the impact on your position of the fact that Broncos scored 20+ 4 of the 5 times Orton started and 18 or less in 8 of 11 games that Tebow started? Orton had the higher QB rating and led the Broncos to more points more often than Tebow. But the defense gave up an average of 28 points per game in Orton's starts whereas they gave up 15 or less in 6 of Tebow's 11 starts. While three games scoring 20+ were lost under Orton, 5 games scoring 18 or less were won under Tebow.

Actually, this is a good example of why games won by a team tells us nothing about how well individual players have played. Your whole approach is flawed.

[dmac_bolt]

Tebow won 8 fucking reg season games the year he was starter and this thread sounds like he was Johnny fucking Unitas. He roomed with horseface and they jacked off together watching Seabiscuit the Movie.

in all fairness, Jay Pouting Cutler was the ultimate great armed loser. Loser between the ears - Total loser in in college, total loser in NFL

Fuck the Broncos

[FoutsFan]

The...defense...gelled...as...the...season...progr essed.

Orton played slightly better Tebow and the team had a worse record. What does that tell you? It says that there was another variable in play. The defense got better as the season progressed.

Do you grasp the impact on your position of the fact that Broncos scored 20+ 4 of the 5 times Orton started and 18 or less in 8 of 11 games that Tebow started? Orton had the higher QB rating and led the Broncos to more points more often than Tebow. But the defense gave up an average of 28 points per game in Orton's starts whereas they gave up 15 or less in 6 of Tebow's 11 starts. While three games scoring 20+ were lost under Orton, 5 games scoring 18 or less were won under Tebow.

Actually, this is a good example of why games won by a team tells us nothing about how well individual players have played. Your whole approach is flawed.

You cherry pick stats and you left out the most important one, interceptions. The passer rating between the two was not much, less than three points.

The reason the Donkeys defense gave up so much is because Orton threw more interceptions in 5 games than Tebow threw in 11, Orton had two fumbles thrown in as well. 9 TO's in 5 games. He was constantly putting his defense in bad positions. One of his interceptions was a pick 6. The defense really sucked on that play right?

Tebow kept the chains moving, grinding down defenses and he played well when it mattered.

So say what you want, tell everyone that we did not see what we saw and the stats are wrong. That is your prerogative. It seems you are driven to hate on Tebow as many are. He was never a great pro QB but as the stats and record show he was much better than Orton. Although Orton did put up some meaningless stats trying to dig out of the hole his interceptions put them in.

Tim Tebow	24	QB	14	11	7-4-0	126	271	46.5	1729	12	4.4	6	2.2	56	6.4	6.3	13.7	123.5	72.9	38.6	33	225	4.95	4.85	10.9	5	5
Kyle Orton	29	qb	5	5	1-4-0	91	155	58.7	979	8	5.2	7	4.5	52	6.3	5.3	10.8	195.8	75.7		9	49	5.67	4.73	5.5

[Boltdiehard]

Tebow won 8 fucking reg season games the year he was starter and this thread sounds like he was Johnny fucking Unitas. He roomed with horseface and they jacked off together watching Seabiscuit the Movie.

in all fairness, Jay Pouting Cutler was the ultimate great armed loser. Loser between the ears - Total loser in in college, total loser in NFL

Fuck the Broncos

Cutler really was a special kind of stupid.