Chargers @ Chiefs Wk3 Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion

[equivocation]

And our second best tackler is ASJ, who is 185# soaking wet.

Third best tackler is Tranquill, 240#

Pursuit and tackling is a skill. We have multiple players screwing up that skill and technique right now. Fix that and the run defense improves. Not great, but much better.

We are ALSO getting pushed off the line. That is harder to improve without personnel changes.

[Guest]

BTW... that INT by Asante Samuel, Jr. yesterday, where he laid out to snag the tipped pass at the Chargers' 5 yard line?

IMO, that's the most impressive Bolt INT since Antonio Cromartie's leaping, one-handed, backward leaning interception of a Peyton Manning pass somewhere around 2009.

(1) Asante Samuel DIVING Interception off Mahomes - YouTube

In the time flies department, would you believe 2007 on the Cromartie one-handed INT against Manning? I was at that Manning 6 INT game. Cromartie had half of them by himself.

And I was at the game on Sunday too (the Chargers are 4-0 at Arrowhead when I attend the game) and saw Samuel lay out for the INT. That was a fantastic play as well. Samuel seemed to be way up in the air for a very long time. He did a great job of maintaining that catch when he went to the ground.

[Guest]

I brought up Guyton's drops before, but some people thought they weren't too serious...well, I think they ARE serious...fortunately vs. the Chefs, didn't cost us the game...but in another game, they might...I say give Palmer more looks--dude seems to have better hands than Guyton...

I disagree. The offense needs the deep threat out there more, not less. Palmer has done nothing to deserve playing time. Already, I think we can put the Palmer is replacing Mike Williams in 2022 nonsense to bed.

Also, Sorenson arrived just as the ball did on Guyton's lone official target. I think that was more of a pass break up than a drop. A better pass would have been an easy TD as Guyton had his man beat by 5 yards.

[JupiterBolt]

I disagree. The offense needs the deep threat out there more, not less. Palmer has done nothing to deserve playing time. Already, I think we can put the Palmer is replacing Mike Williams in 2022 nonsense to bed.

Also, Sorenson arrived just as the ball did on Guyton's lone official target. I think that was more of a pass break up than a drop. A better pass would have been an easy TD as Guyton had his man beat by 5 yards.

That would have been been a tough catch, but Allen or Williams would have made it.

[Guest]

Bigger guys are better at taking on blockers at the LOS. They are not better at taking pursuit angles, closing, and wrapping up in the open field.

Run defense is more than "stout", no matter how much you like the adjective. We've had defenders at multiple levels blow assignments and miss tackles. There is nothing inherent in or dependent on their size that makes that happen. Our most sure tackler so far this year is Adderley, who isn't even 200#.

Not sure what part of smaller LBs with blown up DB bodies getting blocked and finesse DL players getting mauled you are missing. It is as plain as day. We are missing some tackles down the field as we always have, but the problem is that ball carriers are gaining yards before contact on most plays. In fact, Staley emphasized that he thought we tackled very well on Sunday. The big issue is that we are not winning at the line of scrimmage on defense on running plays and that has everything to do with a lack of being stout against the run.

I am not suggesting that the trade off is not worth it in order to stop the pass, but it is just silly for you to suggest that there is no difference in run defending ability between a Danny Shelton and a Jerry Tillery or between a Kyzir White and a Denzel Perryman. And bigger, stronger defenders most definitely do control ball carriers in their grasp better than smaller, quicker defenders do. And running lanes do not materialize when your defense controls the line of scrimmage.

The reason why defenders used to be bigger and stronger is precisely because they were better at stopping the ground game when the ground game was more relevant a decade or more ago. As the passing game has become increasingly important in recent years, more smaller, quicker defenders have been employed to counter the passing game. They are not on the field because they are better run defenders.

[Xenos]

And our second best tackler is ASJ, who is 185# soaking wet.

Third best tackler is Tranquill, 240#

Pursuit and tackling is a skill. We have multiple players screwing up that skill and technique right now. Fix that and the run defense improves. Not great, but much better.

We are ALSO getting pushed off the line. That is harder to improve without personnel changes.

Also this:

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1249884-staley%E2%80%99s-defensive-scheme?p=1249891#post1249891

[Xenos]

It puts less pressure on Herbert because our opponents are not scoring as many points against us when we are stopping the pass.

I do not mind our lack of a running game at all because that tends to idiot proof our OC. IMO, we called too many first down running plays against KC--too much resembled the Lynn scheme in that respect. The overall distribution was okay at 63+% pass, but in general, the ball needs to be in Herbert's hands and more first down passes would be better. Just like Staley said, we want Herbert to be the game decider. That is the right approach.

I think we’re doing perfectly fine on first downs, and you’re imagining it.

[Guest]

That would have been been a tough catch, but Allen or Williams would have made it.

Possibly, but my issue is that that is being referred to by multiple posters as a drop and I think it was a pass break up and not a drop. The pass was underthrown as Herbert was rolling to his left and spotted a wide open Guyton at the last moment. If the throw is right (leads Guyton slightly), the play is a TD. I do not believe for one moment that Palmer would have been that open on that play. I know that Guyton gives us the chance to complete 40+ yard passes down the field. I have seen no evidence of that skill from Palmer so far. Guyton's big play ability by itself trumps every aspect of Palmer's game.

[Guest]

I think we’re doing perfectly fine on first downs, and you’re imagining it.

By my count, we called 12 first down running plays on 22 total first down plays against Kansas City, which is about 54.5% of the those plays, which is about 1.5% more first down running plays than the Anthony Lynn led Chargers called in 2020, which we all could see was way too high of a percentage then and did not work as it all too frequently put Herbert behind the sticks on second and third downs.

I think the total run-pass distribution was okay (63+% pass), but there was too much of an emphasis on running the ball in first down as we ran on more than half of first downs throughout the game, which was clearly a disproportionately heavy running emphasis on first down when compared to the pass-run distribution as a whole.

[equivocation]

Not sure what part of smaller LBs with blown up DB bodies getting blocked and finesse DL players getting mauled you are missing. It is as plain as day. We are missing some tackles down the field as we always have, but the problem is that ball carriers are gaining yards before contact on most plays. In fact, Staley emphasized that he thought we tackled very well on Sunday. The big issue is that we are not winning at the line of scrimmage on defense on running plays and that has everything to do with a lack of being stout against the run.

I am not suggesting that the trade off is not worth it in order to stop the pass, but it is just silly for you to suggest that there is no difference in run defending ability between a Danny Shelton and a Jerry Tillery or between a Kyzir White and a Denzel Perryman. And bigger, stronger defenders most definitely do control ball carriers in their grasp better than smaller, quicker defenders do. And running lanes do not materialize when your defense controls the line of scrimmage.

The reason why defenders used to be bigger and stronger is precisely because they were better at stopping the ground game when the ground game was more relevant a decade or more ago. As the passing game has become increasingly important in recent years, more smaller, quicker defenders have been employed to counter the passing game. They are not on the field because they are better run defenders.

That is entirely non-responsive, despite the new adjectives and descriptions.

There have been many missed tackles and bad angles this year. I'm not saying fixing those alone will make a great run defense, but it will make an average run defense. It's "plain as day". The issues have been both LoS and in the second level. Fixing one of those is better than fixing none.

The Rams third best run defense last year had 2 DTs under 300#s (Joseph-Day 295#, Donald 285#) Brockers 305#, Ebukam 245#, Floyd 240#, Kiser 244#, Hollins 248#, Young 234#, Fuller 203#, Hill 180#, Johnson 208#, Ramsey 208#, Williams 187#. They were literally smaller in total weight than the Chargers this year.

Your simplistic world view of run defense doesn't allow for that to happen. There must be some aspect to run defense beside "bigger".

[jamrock]

Possibly, but my issue is that that is being referred to by multiple posters as a drop and I think it was a pass break up and not a drop. The pass was underthrown as Herbert was rolling to his left and spotted a wide open Guyton at the last moment. If the throw is right (leads Guyton slightly), the play is a TD. I do not believe for one moment that Palmer would have been that open on that play. I know that Guyton gives us the chance to complete 40+ yard passes down the field. I have seen no evidence of that skill from Palmer so far. Guyton's big play ability by itself trumps every aspect of Palmer's game.

It was not only a drop but he made it much more difficult than it needed to be because he misjudged the ball in the air. It was only contested because he decided to go up and jump instead of being a few yards deeper where the pass would have been the chest high bullet Herbert threw.

also, when he jumped it hit him right in his outstretched hands. Both of them. Many errors on that play compounded by his issues on the next play that cost us a 30 yard Keenan catch and run. Very bad sequence for Guyton. I’m not gonna say who it made me miss

[jamrock]

That is entirely non-responsive, despite the new adjectives and descriptions.

There have been many missed tackles and bad angles this year. I'm not saying fixing those alone will make a great run defense, but it will make an average run defense. It's "plain as day". The issues have been both LoS and in the second level. Fixing one of those is better than fixing none.

The Rams third best run defense last year had 2 DTs under 300#s (Joseph-Day 295#, Donald 285#) Brockers 305#, Ebukam 245#, Floyd 240#, Kiser 244#, Hollins 248#, Young 234#, Fuller 203#, Hill 180#, Johnson 208#, Ramsey 208#, Williams 187#. They were literally smaller in total weight than the Chargers this year.

Your simplistic world view of run defense doesn't allow for that to happen. There must be some aspect to run defense beside "bigger".

we need more out of Linval Joseph