Herbert vs His Peers

[equivocation]

So he's basically saying what everyone but chaincrusher has in this thread: Herbert and Burrow are close. It's not Herbert #1 and Burrow out of the top ten.

Burrow also didn't play well on the playoffs.

[DerwinBosa]

Burrow also didn't play well on the playoffs.

That's your opinion. Herbert didn't make it, which is a fact. There's still a lot left to be proven. Moving forward I want Herbert. But I'm sure Bengals fans would rather have Burrow. Either way, you're in great shape for the future at quarterback.

[dmac_bolt]

Not perfect? He was not even good, much less great or perfect.

I agree that his OL was also not good, but Burrow's penchant for holding the ball too long made the OL look worse than it really was.

So you dispute his avg time with the ball was 1.93 seconds? I have no idea, i didn’t time him. But the tweeter dude says he looked up the stat, and you’ve not offered any stat - you just decree “too long” therefore must be true. So you got a number? If he’s holding it too long, how long is he holding it? I saw the Rams 5-man rush roll over the Cats OL like German tanks rolling into Warsaw

[gzubeck]

That's your opinion. Herbert didn't make it, which is a fact. There's still a lot left to be proven. Moving forward I want Herbert. But I'm sure Bengals fans would rather have Burrow. Either way, you're in great shape for the future at quarterback.

Phuck No! There's a very good chance if the Bengals had Herbert they would have won the Superbowl. Herbert > Burrow on any given Sunday. Even when Herbert is playing off his game he still gives us a chance.

:wtf:

[DerwinBosa]

Phuck No! There's a very good chance if the Bengals had Herbert they would have won the Superbowl. Herbert > Burrow on any given Sunday. Even when Herbert is playing off his game he still gives us a chance.

:wtf:

Like he did against the Ravens and Broncos...and Texans?

I love Herbert, but he's not superhuman.

[Critty]

You completely ignored the discussion about YAC which affects YPA and yards per completion. You completely ignored the discussion about Burrow not throwing the ball away which affects YPA, completion percentage and on target throw percentage. Of course completion percentage also enhances YPA.

Again, Burrow has 3 #1 WRs to throw to on every play. Any NFL QB is going to have some success with group of WRs.

You still have no answer for the high INT percentage, instead preferring to cherry pick other categories in which Burrow benefits statistically from his own mistakes and the talent around him. Burrow finished with the 9th highest INT percentage.

However, Burrow did get NFL Comeback Player of the Year this past season, which fully acknowledges how crappy Burrow was as a rookie. LMAO!!! That is not made up. That is what happened.

The only nonsense is your garbage. OnTarget%, tracks passing accuracy with a stat of how often a QB's throw is on target. Spikes and throwaways are excluded.

And YAC as an argument. Really. YAC is a great thing and delivery of a great ball on time and on target helps YAC whether short or intermediate or deep. Everyone knows that.

nterception percentage. Really? It's a simple stat. It's number of interception over number of attempts.
Burrow 14/520
Herbert 15/672

Herbert having a quick pass offense as part of run game for 7.5yd per attempt and more total attempts. And then Burrow having a more run play action offense with less attempts and which isn't getting the ball out as quickly for 9.0yd per attempt. Part of why the sacks and interception are bit higher along with some poor o-line play.

Bengals do not have 3 #1 WRs.
Man you just love making stuff up. Only Chase is a #1WR.
They have Higgins and Boyd and they never have been never will be real NFL WR1. They are good WR2 and WR3. What makes them good is Higgins is a very good WR2 and Boyd is good enough to be a WR2 but he is WR3 which gives them great depth at the position.

Go check adjusted percentage, a metric that not only credits passers for wide receiver drops, but also factors out those passes that were batted at the line of scrimmage, thrown away, spiked, and even those that resulted from the quarterback being hit in their throwing motion. Who are the most accurate in the NFL.

Can you stop with your pathetic takes that make things up.
Apparently you are unable to do that in an effort to win a meaningless argument about young NFL QBs.

:smh:

Herbert is amazing. Burrow is also an amazing young QB.
I just have them ranked Burrow then Herbert. It's okay you have them ranked different. But man you just make things up and use a bunch of hyperbole to try and make your point which isn't working out so well for you.

[gzubeck]

Like he did against the Ravens and Broncos...and Texans?

I love Herbert, but he's not superhuman.

Yeah, We haven't asked him to play both side of the Ball yet!

:hello:

[gzubeck]

The only nonsense is your garbage. OnTarget%, tracks passing accuracy with a stat of how often a QB's throw is on target. Spikes and throwaways are excluded.

And YAC as an argument. Really. YAC is a great thing and delivery of a great ball on time and on target helps YAC whether short or intermediate or deep. Everyone knows that.

nterception percentage. Really? It's a simple stat. It's number of interception over number of attempts.
Burrow 14/520
Herbert 15/672

Herbert having a quick pass offense as part of run game for 7.5yd per attempt and more total attempts. And then Burrow having a more run play action offense with less attempts and which isn't getting the ball out as quickly for 9.0yd per attempt. Part of why the sacks and interception are bit higher along with some poor o-line play.

Bengals do not have 3 #1 WRs.
Man you just love making stuff up. Only Chase is a #1WR.
They have Higgins and Boyd and they never have been never will be real NFL WR1. They are good WR2 and WR3. What makes them good is Higgins is a very good WR2 and Boyd is good enough to be a WR2 but he is WR3 which gives them great depth at the position.

Go check adjusted percentage, a metric that not only credits passers for wide receiver drops, but also factors out those passes that were batted at the line of scrimmage, thrown away, spiked, and even those that resulted from the quarterback being hit in their throwing motion. Who are the most accurate in the NFL.

Can you stop with your pathetic takes that make things up.
Apparently you are unable to do that in an effort to win a meaningless argument about young NFL QBs.

:smh:

Herbert is amazing. Burrow is also an amazing young QB.
I just have them ranked Burrow then Herbert. It's okay you have them ranked different. But man you just make things up and use a bunch of hyperbole to try and make your point which isn't working out so well for you.

At this point in time I would even have Josh Allen ahead of Burrow. I think Herbert and Allen are on an upward Trajectory that Burrow will never get to. To be fair any team with a top ten QB can win a Superbowl if the team around him is good. The only weakness of the Bengals was their oline hence many failed drives. Our defense was our weakness hence our early exit!

:hello:

[DerwinBosa]

Yeah, We haven't asked him to play both side of the Ball yet!

:hello:

You said even when he's off he still gives us a chance. He played like crap in all of those games. We got blown out by the Ravens, lost convincingly to the Broncos, and lost to one of the worst teams in the NFL in the Texans. He also threw the game away against New England. So you basically made a statement that isn't true.

[Guest]

The only nonsense is your garbage.

OnTarget%, tracks passing accuracy with a stat of how often a QB's throw is on target. Spikes and throwaways are excluded.
You are so full of it.

And YAC as an argument. Really. YAC is a great thing and delivery of a great ball on time and on target helps YAC whether short or intermediate or deep. Everyone knows that. Good grief.

Can you stop with your pathetic takes that make things up.
Apparently you are unable to do that in an effort to win a meaningless argument about young NFL QBs.

:smh:

Excuse me. I used the wrong terminology, though my point is still correct. Instead of saying throw the ball away, I should have said, as I have said elsewhere in this thread, that Burrow needs to get rid of the ball. Getting rid of the ball does not necessarily mean throwing it away, though it may mean that. Sometimes when a QB gets rid of a ball under pressure, the QB is trying to complete the pass. Sometimes, the QB is trying to throw slightly off target so that either his receiver catches the ball or nobody does. And, sometimes the QB is just trying to throw the ball away.

Some of the above acts of getting rid of the ball will certainly be counted as targets. Others may be counted as targets. Burrow is taking sacks and avoiding such throws and avoiding making pure "throwaways", the term you have used as well. It seems pretty reasonable that if Burrow made more under of these pressure throws, then his on target percentage would be likely to drop when the ones that are deemed as targets are considered as most QBs do not throw as well while under pressure.

Your YAC counter is just weak made up BS. The fact is that Burrow's receivers led the league in YAC per pass attempt, so it is not entirely a shock that Burrow had the highest YPA since he also had the highest receiver add on per pass attempted. That does undermine Burrow's YPA to some degree because Burrow is getting credit in part for what other players did. Again, none of that is made up. It is absolutely factual.

[equivocation]

That's your opinion. Herbert didn't make it, which is a fact. There's still a lot left to be proven. Moving forward I want Herbert. But I'm sure Bengals fans would rather have Burrow. Either way, you're in great shape for the future at quarterback.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Apparently also Rosenthal's, calling it the "worst three game stretch" of the season for Burrow.

I think Burrow is a good QB, definitely top 10 already, and he will get better. He in no way, shape, or form elevated his game or his team in the playoffs.

Yeah, Herbert had a shit defense and so wasn't in the playoffs. But if you think he didn't elevate his game those last 2 weeks, especially the LVR game where he delivered some of the best, most clutch throws I've ever seen while under constant pressure, you're fucking high. If you think Burrow was in any way clutch this post season, you're fucking high. Just my opinion, man.

[DerwinBosa]

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Apparently also Rosenthal's, calling it the "worst three game stretch" of the season for Burrow.

I think Burrow is a good QB, definitely top 10 already, and he will get better. He in no way, shape, or form elevated his game or his team in the playoffs.

Yeah, Herbert had a shit defense and so wasn't in the playoffs. But if you think he didn't elevate his game those last 2 weeks, especially the LVR game where he delivered some of the best, most clutch throws I've ever seen while under constant pressure, you're fucking high. If you think Burrow was in any way clutch this post season, you're fucking high. Just my opinion, man.

I've mentioned Herbert sucked against Baltimore, Denver (the first time), and Houston. I don't see where I said he didn't play well the last two weeks of the year.

I also haven't mentioned that Burrow played great this postseason. But if you think a quarterback is going to be at his best, or great, when he's getting sacked nine times in one game and seven in another, you may not be high, but you have a lot to learn about the sport. And that's just my opinion, man.