Herbert vs His Peers

[jubei]

there are DEFINITELY throws that Herbert makes that Burrow cannot. There's NO WAY IMO Burrow wouldve been able to make those throws Justin made in the last LVR game with the WRs the Chargers have. Man I wonder how Herbert would be if he had Burrow's WR core, who IMO, are better than ours. We had a receiving (not just WRs) core that liked to drop balls. But I would not disparage Burrow as I think he is a legit QB, just not on the level of Herbert. I think Burrow's timing may be better than Herbert. IMO he is better than Lamar Jackson who relies too much on running and not QBing. And although Cousins is consistent I dont think you'd want him in crunch time or in big games.

[jubei]

I just looked up a fumble stat...HOLY SMOKES Herbert only had 1 fumble? Dak and Derek had 15 and 14!

[Velo]

there are DEFINITELY throws that Herbert makes that Burrow cannot. There's NO WAY IMO Burrow wouldve been able to make those throws Justin made in the last LVR game with the WRs the Chargers have. Man I wonder how Herbert would be if he had Burrow's WR core, who IMO, are better than ours. We had a receiving (not just WRs) core that liked to drop balls. But I would not disparage Burrow as I think he is a legit QB, just not on the level of Herbert. I think Burrow's timing may be better than Herbert. IMO he is better than Lamar Jackson who relies too much on running and not QBing. And although Cousins is consistent I dont think you'd want him in crunch time or in big games.

I know everybody thinks the Bengals' receiving corps is head and shoulders above the Chargers. But when you look at the stats, it doesn't tell that story. It's not an easy comparison, because Herbert spreads the ball around more to different receivers, and Ekeler plays a prominent role in the passing game, much more so than Mixon does for the Bengals. But at the end of the day, or I should say the regular season, Herbert finished above Burrow in yards and TD passes, and the Chargers' offense was better than the Bengals'. So my point is, I think I like the corps of receivers, including the RBs, the Chargers have over what the Bengals have. Ekeler led the league in points scored. If the Chargers can retain Mike Williams, with KA, and Josh Palmer going into his second season, plus Guyton and his big plays, and with Parham, Anderson, McKitty (who I feel can emerge as a surprisingly good receiver), I'll take the Chargers' corps of pass catchers over the Bengals.

[Maniaque 6]

I know everybody thinks the Bengals' receiving corps is head and shoulders above the Chargers. But when you look at the stats, it doesn't tell that story. It's not an easy comparison, because Herbert spreads the ball around more to different receivers, and Ekeler plays a prominent role in the passing game, much more so than Mixon does for the Bengals. But at the end of the day, or I should say the regular season, Herbert finished above Burrow in yards and TD passes, and the Chargers' offense was better than the Bengals'. So my point is, I think I like the corps of receivers, including the RBs, the Chargers have over what the Bengals have. Ekeler led the league in points scored. If the Chargers can retain Mike Williams, with KA, and Josh Palmer going into his second season, plus Guyton and his big plays, and with Parham, Anderson, McKitty (who I feel can emerge as a surprisingly good receiver), I'll take the Chargers' corps of pass catchers over the Bengals.

Me too !

[equivocation]

I would trade the entire LAC WR corps just for Chase.

[Velo]

I would trade the entire LAC WR corps just for Chase.

Really? What if Chase gets injured? Then what? That is the downside to having one super star WR carry a receiving unit. You lose them to injury for any period of time, and you're screwed. That's why I like the Chargers' unit. If one player goes down, there are so many others to fill the void, even if you lose two starters or key players to injury for any length of time. And the Chargers' receivers as a unit are better than the Bengals' unit as a whole - the season stats for the two units bear that out.

[Guest]

I just looked up a fumble stat...HOLY SMOKES Herbert only had 1 fumble? Dak and Derek had 15 and 14!

Herbert actually had ZERO fumbles for the entire season. You remember the "fumble", don't you? It happened in week 1 against WAS when Hebert threw an incomplete pass that traveled about 20 yards in the air into the end zone. That incomplete pass was called a fumble and it was Herbert's only fumble all season long.

[Guest]

I know everybody thinks the Bengals' receiving corps is head and shoulders above the Chargers. But when you look at the stats, it doesn't tell that story. It's not an easy comparison, because Herbert spreads the ball around more to different receivers, and Ekeler plays a prominent role in the passing game, much more so than Mixon does for the Bengals. But at the end of the day, or I should say the regular season, Herbert finished above Burrow in yards and TD passes, and the Chargers' offense was better than the Bengals'. So my point is, I think I like the corps of receivers, including the RBs, the Chargers have over what the Bengals have. Ekeler led the league in points scored. If the Chargers can retain Mike Williams, with KA, and Josh Palmer going into his second season, plus Guyton and his big plays, and with Parham, Anderson, McKitty (who I feel can emerge as a surprisingly good receiver), I'll take the Chargers' corps of pass catchers over the Bengals.

Their WRs are. Chase is an elite #1 WR that is better than anyone we have. And the Bengals are three deep with WRs that have 1,000+ yard seasons to their credit. Boyd has had two such seasons and he is their #3 WR. If we had prime Tyrell Williams with Allen and Williams, the Bengals would still have an edge, but that would at least be a little bit closer.

We have a better OL and Ekeler is a better receiver out of the backfield than Mixon, but Mixon is not a bad receiver as he did have 42 receptions. None of our wide receivers after Allen and Williams is anywhere close to as good as Boyd. Palmer has no special abilities and Guyton is misused by Lombard, partially negating his ability to contribute.

If we added an elite first round WR that was as good as Chase to go along with Allen and Williams, then I would say that our guys are better as I would take Allen and Williams over Higgins and Boyd.

[DerwinBosa]

On the PFF Top 101 (whatever that is), Joe Burrow is rated the #1 quarterback (#6 overall) and Justin Herbert is the #5 quarterback (#25 overall). Is it any more or less meaningful than Gregg Rosenthal's rankings? No. It just goes to show there are plenty who think Burrow is better than Herbert and vice versa. Some just don't want to believe it.

[DerwinBosa]

FFS, this thread is called "Herbert vs. His Peers". The point of the thread is to compare Herbert to his peers.

Screw "making fans excited", I want Herbert throwing the ball 672 times because he is the best QB in the entire league. It seems like you have no idea what we have in Herbert.

We were 5th in pass to run ratio, which fits because we have Herbert. And we were barely even within 4% of the team that passed the ball the highest percentage of the time (Tampa Bay). We were right between LV (4th) and KC (6th) in this category with all three teams being within just over one half of one percent of each other.

It was obvious what Telesco was doing last year. He prioritized the OL because he and Staley correctly realize that Herbert is the franchise. he hoped the defense would be better, but it was not, so this year's changes should be more on the defensive side of the ball if most of our own desirable free agents are re-signed.

I realize Herbert has the potential to be an all-time great quarterback. Currently he is not the best quarterback in the NFL.

What good did an all-time great quarterback do the Miami Dolphins with Dan Marino without a running game or defense? If you want to see your quarterback throw 672 times a season, then you must be looking forward to more 9-8 or worse seasons. I want a Super Bowl title, and the closest this franchise has come was with Stan Humphries at quarterback. No, I don't want the second coming of Stan Humphries. I want a tougher team in the trenches and a dominant running game more than I want Herbert leading the NFL in passing attempts.

[equivocation]

Really? What if Chase gets injured? Then what? That is the downside to having one super star WR carry a receiving unit. You lose them to injury for any period of time, and you're screwed. That's why I like the Chargers' unit. If one player goes down, there are so many others to fill the void, even if you lose two starters or key players to injury for any length of time. And the Chargers' receivers as a unit are better than the Bengals' unit as a whole - the season stats for the two units bear that out.

Well obviously you sign and draft 4 or 5 players to fill in.

Keep in mind, assuming Williams gets the franchise tag at about $19M, Chase's cap number is about $35M less than the Chargers WRs. You can sign a lot of players for that.


Anyway, you're still wrong. Bengals #2 and #3 are better than Chargers #2 and #3. When comparing "season stats for all the receivers" you're essentially just comparing QB stats. When you remove the #1 WR from both sides of course the side with the better #1 WR will look worse.

Bengals would say "no" to that trade btw. Just like we wouldn't trade Slater for their whole OL.

[PR#1]

Telesco had his hands tied behind his back with expensive aging or incapacitated expensive Vets. He has no excuses for screwing it up this upcoming season as he has max flexibility here. His biggest weakness is addressing midseason weaknesses. Getting a team ready for the beginning of season was good but little mid season adjustments. Sort of the Die is cast of mindset.

Very true. 9 years in Telesco will have no more excuses.

I'm hopeful Telesco will get it right by year 15 !!