POLL: Will TT Pick Up Tillery's 5th Year Option?

[ChargersPowderBlue]

Tillery was the best pass rusher on the team. Better than the rest of the DL players on the team were, or is currently. He's better at it than Justin Jones and Linvel Joseph were. Joseph had no pass rush with the Chargers, he came off the field in those situations. Jones wasn't really much of a pass rusher, he was a clean-up one. He got clean-up sacks and wasn't a pocket pusher. Tillery came up big in the KC game in week 3 when they won. He got a big sack against the Broncos in the second meeting and after that moment the team never let up against Denver.

The run defense was historically bad. 30th in run stopping. Last in the league on third down defense. Those are just of a couple of things, there's more. You don't have a historically bad defense just because of one guy. Joseph and Jones contributed to the problem too. Joseph was washed up. Jones is overrated by many fans and his run defense wasn't that great.

[blueman]

Tillery was also part of that last in the league on third downs…

[Guest]

My recollection of last year that any run play to the defenses left side was a gaping hole. Not Tillery's side. Not that hes good against the run but no one was. Jones played that side better than Joseph but the line sucked and for all the tackles White had they were five or ten yards late. The runs were at him. Tillerys problem is being tall. Guards get under him and move him regularly. If hes in pursuit or the play is wide he is probably about average but not worth the dollars he would have been paid. PFF grades aren't the end all be all. Guys were out of position and unfamiliar with a new scheme. Plus K9 had two bad ankles and one needed surgery. Jerry Tillery was a problem last year but far from the biggest problem.

Tillery's PFF run defending grades have sucked in every system in which he has played, so system is not an excuse. Tillery is just a terrible run defender period. And he was the worst graded run defending DL on our roster. Even if PFF did not exist, Tillery's run defending issues are completely obvious. Again, borrowing from Xenos, everyone knows Tillery is horrible at defending the run.

Tillery has been by far the team's biggest defensive problem in every season he has played. He is a poor pass rusher and one of the worst run defending DL players in the NFL. He is awful.

[Guest]

Tillery was the best pass rusher on the team. Better than the rest of the DL players on the team were, or is currently. He's better at it than Justin Jones and Linvel Joseph were. Joseph had no pass rush with the Chargers, he came off the field in those situations. Jones wasn't really much of a pass rusher, he was a clean-up one. He got clean-up sacks and wasn't a pocket pusher. Tillery came up big in the KC game in week 3 when they won. He got a big sack against the Broncos in the second meeting and after that moment the team never let up against Denver.

The run defense was historically bad. 30th in run stopping. Last in the league on third down defense. Those are just of a couple of things, there's more. You don't have a historically bad defense just because of one guy. Joseph and Jones contributed to the problem too. Joseph was washed up. Jones is overrated by many fans and his run defense wasn't that great.

Your post is wildly false as to the pass rushing results of Joseph, Jones and Tillery. Tillery had the worst PFF pass rushing grade of the starting interior DL players. Linval Joseph had a pass rush grade last year of 83.0, which is actually really good. Jones's pass rushing grade was 61.1. Tillery's pass rushing grade was 53.9.

And anecdotal instance of Tillery making a play proves nothing.

All three starting interior DL players did struggle against the run last year. Again, Tillery was the worst of the group, but he was not too far behind Joseph. Justin Jones was the best of the three. Both Jones and Joseph had better PFF grades than Tillery against both the run and the pass.

[Guest]

Once again, whether Tillery is good at rushing the passer is a separate issue;
your original contention was that Tillery should not be in on 3rd & longs because he is a liability in the running game,
and that teams have effectively run the ball against the Chargers in those situations, with Tillery on the field.

Why can't you focus?

You were asked to give some proof to that effect to which you never responded. You were patiently told that in any case, the occurrence of teams
successfully running the football on 3rd & long was so rare that it was not worth the bother to consider. One brave soul tried to persuade you that
run responsibilities on such occasions rested on the 2nd and 3rd levels of the D. These missiles harmlessly bounced off your thick armor plating,
but did get you to redirect towards a reduced & somewhat lame hypothetical stance: that there was some type of gold mine for O-coordinators
across the league to productively mine here with Tillery, and that if they would start running the football on 3rd downs with him on the field, we were doomed.


Now, you are asked that if O-coordinators had finally become as clever as you, and that they were poised to go against convention and relentlessly
attack the Charger D on 3rd and long with rushing plays to expose this deficiency in Tillery's game, wouldn't they extend this notion across the league:
exposing any pass rush specialist in a like matter on 3rd downs? Are you not arguing that NFL teams should no longer deploy, nor waste roster spots
on pass rush specialists, because they were about to become obsolete?

Another question for you that is logically consistent with your train of argument; another evasion on your part,
now fleeing towards hyperbole in describing Tillery as the worst run defender in the league, and adding for good measure that he is not a good pass rusher.
Then why does it matter whether they pass or run with him on the field? This of course is a rhetorical question, by this point I am no longer expecting you
to make sense.

I will just finish with this remark. Why are you wasting our time with the need to appear bloody brilliant? Why not just come out and say
from the very beginning that Tillery is bad vs the run & pass, so you don't want him on the field period. I've stated some time ago that I thought
Tillery was less as a pass rusher than the general opinion of this forum....it is not like you would be saying anything dramatic. The only difference is that
I hope that i'm proven wrong, and that you hope that you are proven correct.

I almost feel that any discussion with you that is headed towards clarity, is suddenly wrenched in a different direction to avoid that outcome.

First, I have already stated multiple times that the defense played better with Fehoko on the field instead of Tillery. I think I have been very clear about the best result being for Tillery not to to be on the field and or on the team. I have stated multiple times that I would cut him.

Following that, when the issue of playing Tillery on 3rd and long (trying to get some use out of Tillery while also trying to avoid his liability as a run defender) surfaced, my response was that the run defending liability combined with the 3rd and long formation gave me no confidence that teams could not run effectively against us 3rd and long.

You are the one that incorrectly referred to Tillery as a "pass rush specialist". Tillery is a weak pass rusher per PFF, so I emphasized that point in response to your nonsense. I corrected that misrepresentation on your part.

Also, the fact that Tillery gives us very little as a pass rusher is relevant to the discussion of having Tillery on the field on 3rd downs and only reinforces the problem with Tillery as a run defending liability. It is not like we are sacrificing a run defending liability to get a great pass rusher. We are sacrificing a run defending liability to get a poor pass rusher, which makes no sense.

I have cited tons of evidence for my position. Your inability to comprehend the evidence and citing of irrelevant and inapplicable league wide information as if it meant something has failed.

Even if teams tend not to run on 3rd and long, that does not mean we should roll out the red carpet for them to run. That is an idiotic strategy, especially when a guy like Tillery does not really give us anything as a pass rusher.

Moreover, there is no hyperbole with respect to my discussion of Tillery. Among starting DL players, run defending grades in the 30s and 40s definitely do place Tillery among the worst run defending starting interior DL players in the league. We are talking about sustained poor run defending over a three year period.

Further, a team playing pass defense might have the chance pick up the slack of a lesser pass rusher. However, when the alignment is geared to stop the pass, the defense will already be vulnerable to the run, so playing a notoriously poor run defender as part of that alignment is more difficult for the defense to cover up. There simply is no need to create this problem at all.

I want the Chargers to win, so I want to see Tillery cut.

[Boltgang74]

Basically TT wasted a 1st round pick on Tillery and made the team stick with the loser to save face.

[Scott Green]

Tillery's PFF run defending grades have sucked in every system in which he has played, so system is not an excuse. Tillery is just a terrible run defender period. And he was the worst graded run defending DL on our roster. Even if PFF did not exist, Tillery's run defending issues are completely obvious. Again, borrowing from Xenos, everyone knows Tillery is horrible at defending the run.

Tillery has been by far the team's biggest defensive problem in every season he has played. He is a poor pass rusher and one of the worst run defending DL players in the NFL. He is awful.

If you think he was worse than Chris Harris last year I can't help you. Harris was slow, out of position and couldn't cover my 87 year old mom. Tillery at least showed up which is more than Harris can say.

[Maniaque 6]

The best news about this defense is T. Campbell is now #6 or 7 corner.

[blueman]

The best news about this defense is T. Campbell is now #6 or 7 corner.

Hallelujah!

[Velo]

Basically TT wasted a 1st round pick on Tillery and made the team stick with the loser to save face.

Tillery has been a huge disappointment; he really should've been a 4th or 5th rounder. But who would you have drafted instead at No. 28 in the 2019 draft? Leading up to the draft, I read multiple stories that said Telesco was looking at drafting Drew Lock at No. 28. So even though Tillery was a wasted first rounder, he may saved us from Drew Lock. The Broncos drafted Lock at No. 42. If Telesco had drafted Lock in 2019, he would not have drafted Herbert in 2020. So as much as I am disappointed in the pick, I am eternally grateful that Tillery at No. 28 in 2019 may have prevented this team from disaster.

[Xenos]

Basically TT wasted a 1st round pick on Tillery and made the team stick with the loser to save face.

Nah. It’s just not worth it at this point to cut him and replace him. If TT wanted to save face, he would have picked up the 5th year option like all his previous 1st rounders.

[equivocation]

Nah. It’s just not worth it at this point to cut him and replace him. If TT wanted to save face, he would have picked up the 5th year option like all his previous 1st rounders.

Yeah these "save face" conspiracy theorists crack me up. They're also the ones complaining when we don't resign draft picks. How does that fit?