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POLL: Will TT Pick Up Tillery's 5th Year Option?

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  • Originally posted by equivocation View Post

    Yeah these "save face" conspiracy theorists crack me up. They're also the ones complaining when we don't resign draft picks. How does that fit?
    Aint nobody complainin about not resigning Shillery.Now yer crackin me up.

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    • Originally posted by Boltgang74 View Post

      Aint nobody complainin about not resigning Shillery.Now yer crackin me up.
      There have been plenty of threads on the lack of second contracts. Which isn't a good thing, but also contradicts the "TT can't let go of mistakes" meme.

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      • Originally posted by Scott Green View Post



        If you think he was worse than Chris Harris last year I can't help you. Harris was slow, out of position and couldn't cover my 87 year old mom. Tillery at least showed up which is more than Harris can say.
        Harris actually produced a 60.4 coverage grade, the weakest of his grades, but that is still much better than anything Tillery has ever done. Even in decline, Harris produced an overall grade that was better than Asante Samuel, Jr. as each aspect of Harris's game was graded higher than any aspect of Samuel's game. I expect Samuel to improve, however, if he gets to play primarily as a slot CB, which I think is his best fit.

        That said, I did fail to consider Kenneth Murray, who actually graded lower than Tillery in 2021 by producing a grade that was more than 20 points lower than his overall 2020 grade, showing just how much he struggled with Staley's defense last year. This year, we will get to see how much of Murray's problems were injury and inexperience with Staley's system.

        I would have re-signed Kyzir White, assuming we could have done so for anything close to what he ultimately accepted to play for the Eagles as his PFF grade was more than 30 points better than Murray's. Our failure to do so continues to be a mystery to me as Murray's contract was smaller than expected.

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        • Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

          Harris actually produced a 60.4 coverage grade, the weakest of his grades, but that is still much better than anything Tillery has ever done. Even in decline, Harris produced an overall grade that was better than Asante Samuel, Jr. as each aspect of Harris's game was graded higher than any aspect of Samuel's game. I expect Samuel to improve, however, if he gets to play primarily as a slot CB, which I think is his best fit.

          That said, I did fail to consider Kenneth Murray, who actually graded lower than Tillery in 2021 by producing a grade that was more than 20 points lower than his overall 2020 grade, showing just how much he struggled with Staley's defense last year. This year, we will get to see how much of Murray's problems were injury and inexperience with Staley's system.

          I would have re-signed Kyzir White, assuming we could have done so for anything close to what he ultimately accepted to play for the Eagles as his PFF grade was more than 30 points better than Murray's. Our failure to do so continues to be a mystery to me as Murray's contract was smaller than expected.


          PFF grades are wonkey in many instances especially with offensive linemen. Harris grading better than Samuel proves they can be not that accurate. As for Murray he had two bad ankles, one that needed surgery so I think he gets a bum rap from alot of fans. I liked White but I also know he missed quite a few tackles. Coverage was his strength. He wasn't going to come up and blow someone up in the hole. I think he was Donnie Edwards and they want more of a Ray Lewis. Just a bad scheme fit for what they want which doesn't make him a bad player just different than what they want.

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          • Originally posted by Scott Green View Post



            PFF grades are wonkey in many instances especially with offensive linemen. Harris grading better than Samuel proves they can be not that accurate. As for Murray he had two bad ankles, one that needed surgery so I think he gets a bum rap from alot of fans. I liked White but I also know he missed quite a few tackles. Coverage was his strength. He wasn't going to come up and blow someone up in the hole. I think he was Donnie Edwards and they want more of a Ray Lewis. Just a bad scheme fit for what they want which doesn't make him a bad player just different than what they want.
            IMO, everybody remembers the big plays that Samuel made, but forget the many times that he got burned. Samuel has talent, but had a very mixed rookie season. Harris was in decline last year, but he was consistently mediocre, not horrible. I could easily see Harris legitimately earning a grade higher than Samuel.

            The same holds true with Tillery. I think people remember the sack he gives us every 4 games, but do not focus on him getting regularly blasted off of the line of scrimmage or at least completely neutralized by the blocking of an opponent. On most snaps, Tillery is not good and he is very bad far too frequently.

            Letting White go is a mystery because he had solid marks at everything. Tranquill graded poorly against the run. Murray graded poorly in coverage.

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            • Tillery is not really that good a pass rusher. He occasionally will do enough stuff correctly, that he beats OL for a sack. But he is not like Aaron Donald, in that Donald has tons of good rushes and creates a lot of pressure, even if many of those plays don't lead to a sack or a hit on a QB. No team is going to give a 2nd or 3rd blocker on Tillery in the way they would for Donald. Donald is going to disrupt a huge percentage of the plays he is single-teamed, and Tillery isn't.

              Tillery got 4.5 sacks this year because he played so much. He has 466 pass rush snaps, which is a lot. His overall percentage of good rushes is on the low side. But most fans don't credit guys on percentages, but the overall number of sacks, which is not a measure of efficiency.

              Tillery needs to get better at his technique and using his hands. He got drafted so high in college, because at the start of his senior year, he was doing a great job of using his hands and was able to throw OL around. He then tore his labrum (?? I think), and was not very effective after the injury. He has never been able to recapture the magic, even though he has all the physical tools a guy needs to be a great DL. If he can use his hands like he did, he is going to be an all pro DL for us.

              I just don't think the probability of that is very high, because he is entering his 4th season and he just can't seem to put it together. Let him go through the offseason, and go through TC again. That is where guys develop and work on technique. But if he hasn't figured it out by the end of TC, I don't see much reason to keep him around. Not that any of our other DL last year were very good, but see what happens, and then make a decision if we want to keep him. Personnally, I don't think he will, but there is no harm in letting him (or any other fringe player) give them the opportunity.

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              • Either trade him or let him walk next year for maybe a comp pick. There's no point in cutting him except pettiness.

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                • Unless he gets beat out. Could happen.

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                  • Originally posted by Steve View Post
                    Tillery is not really that good a pass rusher. He occasionally will do enough stuff correctly, that he beats OL for a sack. But he is not like Aaron Donald, in that Donald has tons of good rushes and creates a lot of pressure, even if many of those plays don't lead to a sack or a hit on a QB. No team is going to give a 2nd or 3rd blocker on Tillery in the way they would for Donald. Donald is going to disrupt a huge percentage of the plays he is single-teamed, and Tillery isn't.

                    Tillery got 4.5 sacks this year because he played so much. He has 466 pass rush snaps, which is a lot. His overall percentage of good rushes is on the low side. But most fans don't credit guys on percentages, but the overall number of sacks, which is not a measure of efficiency.

                    Tillery needs to get better at his technique and using his hands. He got drafted so high in college, because at the start of his senior year, he was doing a great job of using his hands and was able to throw OL around. He then tore his labrum (?? I think), and was not very effective after the injury. He has never been able to recapture the magic, even though he has all the physical tools a guy needs to be a great DL. If he can use his hands like he did, he is going to be an all pro DL for us.

                    I just don't think the probability of that is very high, because he is entering his 4th season and he just can't seem to put it together. Let him go through the offseason, and go through TC again. That is where guys develop and work on technique. But if he hasn't figured it out by the end of TC, I don't see much reason to keep him around. Not that any of our other DL last year were very good, but see what happens, and then make a decision if we want to keep him. Personnally, I don't think he will, but there is no harm in letting him (or any other fringe player) give them the opportunity.
                    Are you saying Tillery is not as good as Aaron Donald?

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                    • Originally posted by blueman View Post
                      Unless he gets beat out. Could happen.
                      It might. You don't want to cut guys too soon, but if it comes down to TC and he is not performing and others are, then I don't think they should hesitate to go with the better player.

                      You need to give rookies and younger players a chance to step up and improve. They have done that with Tillery and he hasn't improved. I hope he will, but you can only give a guy so many chances. Tillery's time is running out.

                      There is a reason rookie contracts are 4 years. The end of TC will be his 3rd full TC (he missed most/all of TC his rookie year), and he is in that 4th year. His problem is a technical one and if it isn't fixed by the time we get to cutting the roster, I think you have reached the end of the line.

                      Right now we have 9 DL on the roster.
                      SJD and A. Johnson are locks to make the roster. Otito probably is as a draft pick.
                      That leaves Merrill, Tillery, Gaziano, Fehoko, Covington, and Brown. With the move to more of a 2 gapping style that Staley prefers, I wouldn't necessarily be suprised if we combed the waiver wire and looked for all new guys. Merrill has the size, but that is about all you can say about him. Gaziano lacks the size to 2 gap, but makes up for it by being slowish and not much of a 1 gap player. Covington played his best football back as a limited use run down guy for Houston, but offers zero pass rush. Tillery and Covington are the best of a bad lot (as backups). I wouldn't carry 6 dl unless we can find a some good guys to replace the ones we have. Maybe a pass rush specialist, if we can find someone, which I doubt.
                      Last edited by Steve; 05-13-2022, 02:12 PM.

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