Our WR's

[Velo]

Guyton needs to be able to get off the line more consistently, especially moving into year two of this offense. If he can’t his speed won’t matter (and Palmer will already be open anyway, cuz something else you apparently can’t teach lol).

Do you have video of Guyton not being able to get off the line? Because he is over 200 lbs, plenty big enough to beat press coverage. He is not a typical speed WR in that he's not a smerf that DBs can reroute easily. Guyton's catch percentage last season 65%, higher than Mike Williams (59%). I think the biggest thing holding him back last season was not his inability to do something, but his lack of opportunities in an offense that is loaded with pass catching weapons, starting with two WRs at the top who were 12th and 13th in the league in receiving yardage. No other team had two guys finish that high in receiving yardage. That limits how many opportunities a guy like Guyton, who only played about 50 percent of offensive snaps last season, is going to get.

[blueman]

Do you have video of Guyton not being able to get off the line? Because he is over 200 lbs, plenty big enough to beat press coverage. He is not a typical speed WR in that he's not a smerf that DBs can reroute easily. Guyton's catch percentage last season 65%, higher than Mike Williams (59%). I think the biggest thing holding him back last season was not his inability to do something, but his lack of opportunities in an offense that is loaded with pass catching weapons, starting with two WRs at the top who were 12th and 13th in the league in receiving yardage. No other team had two guys finish that high in receiving yardage. That limits how many opportunities a guy like Guyton, who only played about 50 percent of offensive snaps last season, is going to get.

Excuses excuses. Palmer caught a lot more passes as the season wore on, Guyton less so. The biggest thing holding Guyton back is Guyton. I don’t have video but I did watch the games, seems Guyton always had very tight coverage on him in the short and intermediate routes unless it was a breakaway bomb and his straight line speed came into play, which was amazing, sure. Palmer made separation happen a lot more, and seems Herbert liked that. Both had a lot of opportunities, both will continue to. Let’s see how it shakes out but so far Palmer is clearly ahead of Guyton, for very good reasons.

[equivocation]

Do you have video of Guyton not being able to get off the line? Because he is over 200 lbs, plenty big enough to beat press coverage. He is not a typical speed WR in that he's not a smerf that DBs can reroute easily. Guyton's catch percentage last season 65%, higher than Mike Williams (59%). I think the biggest thing holding him back last season was not his inability to do something, but his lack of opportunities in an offense that is loaded with pass catching weapons, starting with two WRs at the top who were 12th and 13th in the league in receiving yardage. No other team had two guys finish that high in receiving yardage. That limits how many opportunities a guy like Guyton, who only played about 50 percent of offensive snaps last season, is going to get.

I posted an analytics tweet a month ago or so that had Guyton bottom 3 in the NFL in breaking the press last year. It was like 15%. It's a significant reason why we struggled vs BAL and NE.

[dmac_bolt]

Excuses excuses. Palmer caught a lot more passes as the season wore on, Guyton less so. The biggest thing holding Guyton back is Guyton. I don’t have video but I did watch the games, seems Guyton always had very tight coverage on him in the short and intermediate routes unless it was a breakaway bomb and his straight line speed came into play, which was amazing, sure. Palmer made separation happen a lot more, and seems Herbert liked that. Both had a lot of opportunities, both will continue to. Let’s see how it shakes out but so far Palmer is clearly ahead of Guyton, for very good reasons.

Palmer gets open faster, he has more Slayer in him than Guyton. As you note - as coaches noted - Last year as the season wore on, Palmer was ascending at Guyton’s expense. I expect that to continue. Neither of them will be ever be called Bambi so its a guess either way. And until Slayer or Dub get hurt, neither will be THAT important.

I’m happy with our WR group but I think some of the “wonderful problem of riches” talk around here is overstated. Lots of teams have Palmers and Guytons. Someone posted AFCW best position groups the other day - that ranker put our WR group #2 in AFCW. Maybe we are 2, maybe 1, but we don’t have the greatest WR group in football history. So yeah, a bit overstated in these parts. Jmo. Still, this is a position group I am confident in … lets roll.

[sonorajim]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-se...osition-groups


1



Keenan Allen
Mike WilliamsJustin Herbert with their ability to win 50-50 balls down the field. Allen (6-2, 211) and Williams (6-4, 218) excel at coming down with contested catches, but there is so much more to each of their games. As a crafty route-runner with an array of street-ball moves at the line of scrimmage, the 30-year-old Allen is nearly impossible to defend in a one-on-one match-up in the slot or out wide, as evidenced by his four 100-catch seasons in the past five years. The five-time Pro Bowl selectee is a high-end chain-mover with a knack for making the big play in the clutch. Not to be outdone, Williams delivers splash plays on the perimeter as an extra-large vertical threat. The 27-year-old has averaged over 16 yards per catch throughout his career, with 26 career touchdowns in five seasons. Given the challenge this tandem poses to defenses on the perimeter, they are an easy choice as the No. 1 duo in the league.

[Velo]

I'm a big fan of Palmer and believe he is going to have a breakout year and become a studly WR in this league. I wasn't pitting Guyton against Palmer, Palmer probably does have more upside. I am merely stating that Guyton, a UDFA project, is developing into a pretty good WR in his own right. Go back and look at some of the plays he made last season. Look at the Cincy game. I think Guyton has the potential to break out this season too, but what will hold him back is a lack of targets, after KA, MW, Palmer, Ekeler and the TEs get theirs. My point in all this is that the Chargers have more receiving talent than they can use. It's a good problem to have, because if there is a injury to a key pass catcher, the offense won't be set back as much.

[dmac_bolt]

I'm a big fan of Palmer and believe he is going to have a breakout year and become a studly WR in this league. I wasn't pitting Guyton against Palmer, Palmer probably does have more upside. I am merely stating that Guyton, a UDFA project, is developing into a pretty good WR in his own right. Go back and look at some of the plays he made last season. Look at the Cincy game. I think Guyton has the potential to break out this season too, but what will hold him back is a lack of targets, after KA, MW, Palmer, Ekeler and the TEs get theirs. My point in all this is that the Chargers have more receiving talent than they can use. It's a good problem to have, because if there is a injury to a key pass catcher, the offense won't be set back as much.

Im not down on him either, but i agree Palmer will have more opportunities and make more of them. I also have a wildcard play that could take 2 or 3 reps a game - if Horvath can block like a FB, he is going to be a tremendous stealth weapon on wheel routes or flat outlets passes and such. He’s fast for a FB and has good hands. But i don’t know that he can block NFL defenders yet and he won’t see the field on offense if he can’t.

[Velo]

Im not down on him either, but i agree Palmer will have more opportunities and make more of them. I also have a wildcard play that could take 2 or 3 reps a game - if Horvath can block like a FB, he is going to be a tremendous stealth weapon on wheel routes or flat outlets passes and such. He’s fast for a FB and has good hands. But i don’t know that he can block NFL defenders yet and he won’t see the field on offense if he can’t.

I think even Palmer's chances will be limited and his full potential not totally utilized due to the sheer No. of receiving weapons this offense has. Spiller is going to get his share too. And look at the TEs, Everett and Parham are a pretty decent duo. Neither are super stars, but both are pretty capable receivers. And in the very limited opportunities McKitty had last season, I thought he looked promising. He's another guy on this offense whose full potential will not be realized with all the guys ahead of him. I like the idea of not putting Palmer in a position where he is under pressure to make plays, to allow him to develop more naturally. When his time comes, he will. And if either KA or MW has to miss time with injury or whatever, Palmer will be ready and capable to step up. As a rookie, when Palmer had to step in when KA was out with COVID he was pretty damn good, especially for being a rookie buried on the depth chart.

[chargeroo]

Excuses excuses. Palmer caught a lot more passes as the season wore on, Guyton less so. so far Palmer is clearly ahead of Guyton, for very good reasons.

Fact is, they were quite even.
Palmer - 33/49
Guyton - 31/48

Looking at yards/catch - Guyton is way ahead.

I think Palmer is "clearly ahead" is your opinion, not a fact. The fact is they are very close.

[Steve]

Both Palmer and Guyton need work.

Guyton had 5 catches in the 1st two games, averaging 2.5 per game. Then he had 7 catches in weeks 3 to 11 (week 7 was the bye) - less than 1 per game. Then he finished strong with 19 catches in weeks 12 to 18 (he missed week 16), so averaged 3 per game. He didn't have any catches vs KC #1 and Minn. He had 4 catches vs Cincy and 6 vs LVR #2. He had 4 drops last season. He also had 7 carries for 34 yards.

Palmer was inconsiustent too. weeks 1 to 8, he had 7 catches- 1 per week. Weeks 9 to 13 he had 8 catches - 1.6 per game. Weeks 14 to 18, 18 catches in 5 games, so 3.6 per. He had 3 games with no catches (KC #1, LVR #1, and Cincy), and 3 games with 4 or more catches (NYG, HST, LVR #2). Palmer had 1 drop. Rushing he had 1 carry for 6 yards.

It's kinda hard to compare the two of them. Palmer is a possession guy who runs good routes and can attack big chunks of the field. Guyton is somewhat limited in where he attacks, but because he does his best work downfield, making him a pretty dangerous weapon, but harder to get the ball to.

In the end, both are fairly productive 3rd guys, but both need to step up their games.

The big thing will be who can step up and replace Jared Cook's production? Both Everrett and Cook had 48 catches, but Cook had almost 100 yards more, and is a much better route runner. However, while he was a better route runner he really started to slid around mid-season and just kept going, and Everrett is in his prime, and finally in an offense that may give him a chance to be featured as a receiver a bit more. Or are the WR going to step up or Parham/McKitty??? Or how about the combination of Spiller and Ekeler. I could see Spiller adding a lot of kinda boring, but very useful yards on short checkdowns on early downs that keeps us out of the typical 3rd and long's.

[Boltjolt]

Both Palmer and Guyton need work.

Guyton had 5 catches in the 1st two games, averaging 2.5 per game. Then he had 7 catches in weeks 3 to 11 (week 7 was the bye) - less than 1 per game. Then he finished strong with 19 catches in weeks 12 to 18 (he missed week 16), so averaged 3 per game. He didn't have any catches vs KC #1 and Minn. He had 4 catches vs Cincy and 6 vs LVR #2. He had 4 drops last season. He also had 7 carries for 34 yards.

Palmer was inconsiustent too. weeks 1 to 8, he had 7 catches- 1 per week. Weeks 9 to 13 he had 8 catches - 1.6 per game. Weeks 14 to 18, 18 catches in 5 games, so 3.6 per. He had 3 games with no catches (KC #1, LVR #1, and Cincy), and 3 games with 4 or more catches (NYG, HST, LVR #2). Palmer had 1 drop. Rushing he had 1 carry for 6 yards.

It's kinda hard to compare the two of them. Palmer is a possession guy who runs good routes and can attack big chunks of the field. Guyton is somewhat limited in where he attacks, but because he does his best work downfield, making him a pretty dangerous weapon, but harder to get the ball to.

In the end, both are fairly productive 3rd guys, but both need to step up their games.

The big thing will be who can step up and replace Jared Cook's production? Both Everrett and Cook had 48 catches, but Cook had almost 100 yards more, and is a much better route runner. However, while he was a better route runner he really started to slid around mid-season and just kept going, and Everrett is in his prime, and finally in an offense that may give him a chance to be featured as a receiver a bit more. Or are the WR going to step up or Parham/McKitty??? Or how about the combination of Spiller and Ekeler. I could see Spiller adding a lot of kinda boring, but very useful yards on short checkdowns on early downs that keeps us out of the typical 3rd and long's.

Cook had the most drops or second to Keenan with much less targets and was running wrong routes which led to 2 INTs for Herbert, on a pic 6 so those 2 things....the drops and hopefully running the right routes should be an improvement from Everett. Cook was putting in little effort on those 2 routes like he thought the ball was absolutely not coming his way.

[equivocation]

I think Guyton is much more productive as a slot WR so having someone who can take his outside reps should help him. If Lombardi makes that adjustment, of course.