Official Charger Season Discussion - News - Roster Moves - Injuries

[rensoul]

I'm making the argument that the offense has failed in the games I listed. Nobody thinks our D is doing well enough.
Follow the games. You think scoring 0 points in one half is good enough? I don't.
You think having 4 chances to win the game and coming up empty is good enough? I don't

And truth is as bad as the D has been they bailed out Staley, not once but twice. Both times resulted in Ws.

And Dallas lost a game because their D was the culprit in that game. So don't go looking at stats for W-L excuses.

I do follow the games and I get the offense isn't perfect.
However, when I compare the two sides of the ball and observe the whole body of work.
It's pretty obvious where the issues are and most of them are on defense.

If you watch teams that have a real defense, there will be games when the offense is off and they won't play well, still they'll often win on the strength of their defense. Basically, a lot of teams with a real defense win ugly.

That doesn't happen often on the Chargers because the defense has been bad. So, if the offense isn't playing close to perfection it's noticed a lot more and can end in losses hence the close point differential.

For example go watch the KC vs NYJ game the other night or the Philly/Tampa game, if Herbert plays like that the team loses.

Since you bring up Dallas like you are proving some kind of a point they played bad against Arizona and in their other games they gave up 0, 10 and 3 points.

Wake me up when the Chargers defense does anything close to that and I'll start blaming the offense if they lose.

[NOrvMeNow]

Two things: Ekeler has been out, and the center play has been declining.

I've heard Clapp was okay, but he isn't a healthy Linsley.

[charger1_sj]

I do follow the games and I get the offense isn't perfect.
However, when I compare the two sides of the ball and observe the whole body of work.
It's pretty obvious where the issues are and most of them are on defense.

If you watch teams that have a real defense, they'll be games when the offense is off and they won't play well, still they'll often win on the strength of their defense. Basically, a lot of teams with a real defense win ugly.

That doesn't happen often on the Chargers because the defense has been bad. So, if the offense isn't playing close to perfection it's noticed a lot more and can end in losses hence the close point differential.

For example go watch the KC vs NYJ game the other night or the Philly/Tampa game, if Herbert plays like that the team loses.

Since you bring up Dallas like you are proving some kind of a point they played bad against Arizona and in their other games they gave up 0, 10 and 0 points.

Wake me up when the Chargers defense does anything close to that and I'll start blaming the offense if they lose.

The offense does not need to be perfect. They just need to close out games. They have not done that.

The D has been bad. But in game situations they have come through twice, both resulting in Ws.

You're picking bad examples. Jets D is legit, but their O is not. That's why KC won the game, that and the refs.
Tampa is also a bad offensive team. In both your cases the bad offensive team lost.

But if you go by the stats and rankings Dallas should be 4-0. They are not. Why? Inconsistency.

I don't think the Raiders game should have been close. Why was it?

I don't think the Titans game should have ended 24 all at the end of 4. Why did it? Let me tell you why.

We are up by 4. Titans punt. We get the ball in good field position. 3 and out. Titans punt. We get the ball
in good field position. 3 and out. Titans TD. Chargers win the game with a TD, instead settle for a FG to tie the game.
OT we get the ball first, 3 and out. Titans win with a FG.

Four chances to win the game, failed all four times. You want to blame the defense for the collapse, Yes they did.
But the offense had the changes to win the game and failed.

[jamrock]

In the first half of the Raider game you saw what complementary football looks like. Defense created turnovers, offense converted on short fields.

Second half, you saw the opposite.

[rensoul]

The offense does not need to be perfect. They just need to close out games. They have not done that.

The D has been bad. But in game situations they have come through twice, both resulting in Ws.

You're picking bad examples. Jets D is legit, but their O is not. That's why KC won the game, that and the refs.
Tampa is also a bad offensive team. In both your cases the bad offensive team lost.

But if you go by the stats and rankings Dallas should be 4-0. They are not. Why? Inconsistency.

I don't think the Raiders game should have been close. Why was it?

I don't think the Titans game should have ended 24 all at the end of 4. Why did it? Let me tell you why.

We are up by 4. Titans punt. We get the ball in good field position. 3 and out. Titans punt. We get the ball
in good field position. 3 and out. Titans TD. Chargers win the game with a TD, instead settle for a FG to tie the game.
OT we get the ball first, 3 and out. Titans win with a FG.

Four chances to win the game, failed all four times. You want to blame the defense for the collapse, Yes they did.
But the offense had the changes to win the game and failed.

In my opinion, if this team plays about the way it has been it's likely to be about a 8-9 to 9-8 team with most of the games coming down to the wire.

Sometimes the offense will save the day and sometimes they won't and will fall short.

A much easier solution to all of this is if the defense could regularly give up less than 20 points a game.
That would be about a 12th ranked defense in the league.

With the most expensive defensive roster in the league and defensive "guru" of a HC I don't think this is unreasonable.

If that happens, we likely wouldn't even be having this convo because almost all the games wouldn't be going down to the wire. I think that's the point you are missing, teams with good defenses likely don't have to play these close call games as often as the Chargers do.

I give you real examples of other teams and you dismiss them, I give you real stats, now stats are useless.

You seem hell bent on blaming the offense for the team's shortcomings. I see a team that plays way too many down to the wire games the past two plus seasons and often the cause of that is a poor defense.

The point is, if the defense is slightly above average the offense is likely to not even be in the down to the wire situations it has been in almost every week in the first place.

[Xenos]

I do follow the games and I get the offense isn't perfect.
However, when I compare the two sides of the ball and observe the whole body of work.
It's pretty obvious where the issues are and most of them are on defense.

If you watch teams that have a real defense, there will be games when the offense is off and they won't play well, still they'll often win on the strength of their defense. Basically, a lot of teams with a real defense win ugly.

That doesn't happen often on the Chargers because the defense has been bad. So, if the offense isn't playing close to perfection it's noticed a lot more and can end in losses hence the close point differential.

For example go watch the KC vs NYJ game the other night or the Philly/Tampa game, if Herbert plays like that the team loses.

Since you bring up Dallas like you are proving some kind of a point they played bad against Arizona and in their other games they gave up 0, 10 and 3 points.

Wake me up when the Chargers defense does anything close to that and I'll start blaming the offense if they lose.

Yup. Agree completely

[Boltjolt]

Very good news - I thought he broke it:

Parham needs to take that,. ..learn how to fall class

[Velo]

Parham needs to take that,. ..learn how to fall class

I think his extreme height/length might make it more of a challenge to brace for impact compared to a normal size athlete.

[blueman]

Offense had two chances to put the game away. Tannehill's TD would have met nothing had the offense scored either a FG or TD on those drives. Instead 3 and out. Fail
Next possession chance to close the game out with a TD, But failed settled for the FG instead. Fail.
OT we got the ball first 3 and out fail.

You only get so many opportunities to close out the game. Offense had 4 such opportunities and failed all four times. You are playing an NFL team. If you give them
enough opportunities they will beat you.. This game falls squarely on the offensive failures.

Long term we know the D is a big problem. That's no excuse for the offense.

Dunno why this is even a debate.

[charger1_sj]

In my opinion, if this team plays about the way it has been it's likely to be about a 8-9 to 9-8 team with most of the games coming down to the wire.

Sometimes the offense will save the day and sometimes they won't and will fall short.

A much easier solution to all of this is if the defense could regularly give up less than 20 points a game.
That would be about a 12th ranked defense in the league.

With the most expensive defensive roster in the league and defensive "guru" of a HC I don't think this is unreasonable.

If that happens, we likely wouldn't even be having this convo because almost all the games wouldn't be going down to the wire. I think that's the point you are missing, teams with good defenses likely don't have to play these close call games as often as the Chargers do.

I give you real examples of other teams and you dismiss them, I give you real stats, now stats are useless.

You seem hell bent on blaming the offense for the team's shortcomings. I see a team that plays way too many down to the wire games the past two plus seasons and often the cause of that is a poor defense.

The point is, if the defense is slightly above average the offense is likely to not even be in the down to the wire situations it has been in almost every week in the first place.

You're making a very good case for the long haul.

You have not explained why scoring 0 points in the 2nd half of the Raiders game is acceptable.

You have not explained why scoring 3 points on 4 offensive possessions is acceptable. If you going to do that you will lose a lot of NFL games,
despite what the stats and rankings say.

Not sure what other games have to do with the Chargers offense. But the Bucs and the Jets are not good offensive teams. So bad examples there.

Stats are only useful at the end of the year to figure out what needs improvement. In the mean time the team needs to figure out how play better
and close out games when the opportunities are there.

[rensoul]

You're making a very good case for the long haul.

You have not explained why scoring 0 points in the 2nd half of the Raiders game is acceptable.

You have not explained why scoring 3 points on 4 offensive possessions is acceptable. If you going to do that you will lose a lot of NFL games,
despite what the stats and rankings say.

Not sure what other games have to do with the Chargers offense. But the Bucs and the Jets are not good offensive teams. So bad examples there.

Stats are only useful at the end of the year to figure out what needs improvement. In the mean time the team needs to figure out how play better
and close out games when the opportunities are there.

I've said the offense hasn't been perfect, it hasn't but it's been top ten level.

Why I don't address every little point you are trying to make is you are missing the big picture with this discussion. The games shouldn't even always be this close in the first place.

The problem the two plus years with this HC is the defense is poor. That puts the Chargers in a lot more down to the wire games than normal. Herbert has the most comeback wins in the league since he was drafted, that's not good, it's an indicator of a piss poor defense and too many down to the wire games.

So the Raiders game, no it's not ideal the offense doesn't score in 2nd half, however they put up 24.
The defense gives up less than 20 no problem, they win.

The defense gives up less than 20 in Tennesee, no problem, they win

The defense gives up less than 20 to Minny, no problem, they win

The defense gives up less than 20 to Miami, no problem, they win.

Giving up less than 20 is about a 12th ranked defense so far this year.

The point is with the amount the Chargers have been scoring, if they had a slightly above average defense there is not much to talk about here.

The nitpicking of the offense when the defense has been bad isn't logical. Yes, the offense could do better but the defense could do a hell of a lot better.

Ok, since you don't approve the examples I've given since they don't conveniently serve your purposes, let's start with Tennessee. Saints gave up 15 to them, Browns gave up 3 points. Buffalo held Miami to 20, Chargers D does that they win both games. Instead they gave up 27 and 36 points to those teams.
Why didn't the defense perform at a comparable level?

[richpjr]

Claypool comes with too much baggage. He's set in his ways...Definite pass as you say

It's mind boggling to think that some guys are so entitled and spoiled that they don't realize the opportunity they have. If the guy shut up and applied himself he could be a star. Instead, he's about to be on his 3rd team. Pathetic.