Former OC Kellen Moore - Discussion

[jamrock]

The Chargers who played vs Jax know why they lost and how they feel about it. Outside opinions be damned.
Work hard, get better, move forward and kick the next team's ass. Then the next.
Last year is ancient history. F**K Jax and a bunch of talking heads.

That’s what Staley is saying. Let’s address it and move on so it doesn’t impact the season. I guarantee addressing it is not going to be hey we only lost by 1 point so no biggie

[sonorajim]

That’s what Staley is saying. Let’s address it and move on so it doesn’t impact the season. I guarantee addressing it is not going to be hey we only lost by 1 point so no biggie

0-100 doesn't matter. It was an L. An end of the year L in a single elimination tournament. We need more Ws going forward.

[colorado]

0-100 doesn't matter. It was an L. An end of the year L in a single elimination tournament. We need more Ws going forward.

My prediction for this season is they will use that loss against Jax to build on.i have a gut feeling..

[sonorajim]

My prediction for this season is they will use that loss against Jax to build on.i have a gut feeling..

Every Charger that was on last year's roster is PO'd that that game happened. You saw the participation at volunteer OTA's.

[dmac_bolt]

Obviously, we disagree about whether giving up a 27-0 lead in a playoff game is worse than losing when you just don’t have it in a playoff game.

doesn’t make me a drama queen and sorry to say doesn’t make you uniquely talented intellectually.

Ask professional athletes what feels worse. Overwhelmingly the response will be losing a close game and even more a game you had in hand.

I know you want to discount emotion and heart but these guys aren’t robots. You seem to make the common mistake numbers only people make by removing those elements which matter a great deal in a game like football that is extremely physical and mental. It’s why the old aphorism about combines not being able to measure heart exists.

There’s the problem, you’re still talking about feelings. I’m talking objective facts. I’ll let you have the argument that you feel worse. I guarantee the Bills and 49ers players all felt like shit, you’re just wrong to think they don’t konw their team was humiliated on National TV. By the end of the Bills or 49ers games, those fans were probably too numb to feel, so what. That doesn’t make their game day effort better, its irrelevant to an objective assessment of team performance.

Playing bad for 2 quarters is not worse than playing bad for 4 quarters. Losing by 1 is not worse than losing by 17 or 21. Each of the games were equally important, each player knew it before the opening kickoff. “Just didnt have it” = Not showing up at all. That is not better than collapsing halfway thru. It’s twice as bad, in rough math.

But if all that matters is your feelings, then sure. Maybe you really do feel worse than anyone else who ever lost in sport before.

[colorado]

Every Charger that was on last year's roster is PO'd that that game happened. You saw the participation at volunteer OTA's.

Yep, time to get down to business.

[jamrock]

There’s the problem, you’re still talking about feelings. I’m talking objective facts. I’ll let you have the argument that you feel worse. I guarantee the Bills and 49ers players all felt like shit, you’re just wrong to think they don’t konw their team was humiliated on National TV. By the end of the Bills or 49ers games, those fans were probably too numb to feel, so what. That doesn’t make their game day effort better, its irrelevant to an objective assessment of team performance.

Playing bad for 2 quarters is not worse than playing bad for 4 quarters. Losing by 1 is not worse than losing by 17 or 21. Each of the games were equally important, each player knew it before the opening kickoff. “Just didnt have it” = Not showing up at all. That is not better than collapsing halfway thru. It’s twice as bad, in rough math.

But if all that matters is your feelings, then sure. Maybe you really do feel worse than anyone else who ever lost in sport before.

Now we’re just going around in circles. Suffice to say I disagree with objective facts analysis and doubt 49ers or Bills fans or players felt worse. Players aren’t stupid. 49ers knew they had no chance. Only one of the teams were talking about had one of their so called best players throwing his helmet and jawing at the ref. But you don’t seem to think it’s an emotional game

[powderblueboy]

There’s the problem, you’re still talking about feelings. I’m talking objective facts. I’ll let you have the argument that you feel worse. I guarantee the Bills and 49ers players all felt like shit, you’re just wrong to think they don’t konw their team was humiliated on National TV. By the end of the Bills or 49ers games, those fans were probably too numb to feel, so what. That doesn’t make their game day effort better, its irrelevant to an objective assessment of team performance.

Playing bad for 2 quarters is not worse than playing bad for 4 quarters. Losing by 1 is not worse than losing by 17 or 21. Each of the games were equally important, each player knew it before the opening kickoff. “Just didnt have it” = Not showing up at all. That is not better than collapsing halfway thru. It’s twice as bad, in rough math.

But if all that matters is your feelings, then sure. Maybe you really do feel worse than anyone else who ever lost in sport before.

There is no correct answer here. It depends on the circumstances for each team ..... the following year's team is not the same for several reasons.

Which Charger playoff loss to New England was worse? For a fan, there can be no doubt.

For a player, which one sucked the life out of the team the following season? The 2019 team wasn't the 2007-8 team in terms of talent.

You can never tell: too many variables.

[powderblueboy]

Now we’re just going around in circles. Suffice to say I disagree with objective facts analysis and doubt 49ers or Bills fans or players felt worse. Players aren’t stupid. 49ers knew they had no chance. Only one of the teams were talking about had one of their so called best players throwing his helmet and jawing at the ref. But you don’t seem to think it’s an emotional game

Going in circles is not optional.

How many teams have gotten bounced in the first round and went on to the Super Bowl the following season?
Very few!

It's probably more likely that a Super Bowl team missed the playoffs entirely the previous season.

I'm surprised no one here has favorably compared the Charger playoff experience to the Eagles.

[DerwinBosa]

Staley has a lot to prove after that playoff collapse. Andy Reid did just fine getting his team back together after blowing a 38-10 lead to the Colts in the 2013 playoffs and a 21-3 lead to the Titans in the 2017 postseason. Bill Belichick got his team back together after the Patriots blew a 21-3 lead to the Colts in the 2006 AFC Championship Game. If you don't have a good head coach to get you back together, history shows you'll probably fall apart.

The 2003 Giants went 4-12 after blowing a 38-14 lead to the 49ers in the playoffs in 2002. Jim Fassel was fired. The Atlanta Falcons were never the same after blowing a 28-3 lead to the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Dan Quinn got fired a couple of years later, and they haven't won a playoff game since.

It's up to Staley to guide this team out of that funk to a successful season--which to me would be making progress in the playoffs by showing we're at the very least one of the top teams in he AFC, close to what the Bengals and Chiefs have been the last two years.

[dmac_bolt]

Now we’re just going around in circles. Suffice to say I disagree with objective facts analysis and doubt 49ers or Bills fans or players felt worse. Players aren’t stupid. 49ers knew they had no chance. Only one of the teams were talking about had one of their so called best players throwing his helmet and jawing at the ref. But you don’t seem to think it’s an emotional game

we do disagree. Thats ok. I objectively analyzed the actual performance of all 3 teams, you didn’t dispute any facts, you didn’t counter any analyses. you just return again to your guess of players feelings and you assert that is the most important factor in what happened during the games. You offer excuses for those teams, which is kind. You withhold the same consideration for your own team, which is understandable as your feelings are all about how you feel about your team letting you down. The fact is the Chargers were winning the day until their second of two starting CB went down. JAX proceeded to pick that apart, which then caused them to lose control of rushing defense. Their LDE who returned to the lineup was still not close to 100% and not effective, obviously. He was also getting held every play, which he handled like a big baby by the end of the game (he was right, btw). Our starting LBs played horrible most of the season, and maybe worse in that game. Our rookie DB thrust into starting role got burnt badly and repeatedly. Many players choked on executing assignment discipline thru the second half, and above all Lombo sucks balls and cost the victory by failing to run a minimally competent offense that lacked any courage after getting a big lead. And our ace rookie PK missed a chip shot FG that would have iced the game even in the throws of all of that adversity. But only other teams have excuses, i hear ya.

I totally get that feeling, i felt let down too. LAC loss felt worse to me too. 95% of my friends HATE the Chargers because of the LA move, they gleefully bashed me to no end. in contrast, the other 2 teams didn’t let you down, you don’t feel anything about those games. neither did I. Your LAC game feelings are the worst feelings and you cite that over and over asproof the actual loss was worse. I respectfully disregard feelings as partisan emotion in the eye of the beholder. I once dated a gal from Buffalo, and i know the Buffalo sports fan mindset. Unlike LA, they live and breathe the shit, they sniff pigskin as an aphrodisiac. they care 1000% more than LA fans care. They bleed 1000% more than LA does. go ask Bills fans and I guarantee they felt worse about their beloved Bills team getting curb-stomped the entire long painful humiliating game from start to finish. All of the feelings shit is a matter of who is asked. Bills players feel worse about a Bills loss. 49ers players feel worse about a 49ers loss. Charger players feel worse about a Chargers loss. Duh. Thats not objective and its not even analysis.

I never said it’s not an emotional game, your repeated straw man argument. It absolutely is. what I say is that objective analysis of a game after the fact should not be emotional. You feel you, I’ll analyze facts. I do appreciate that my objective analysis conflicts with your feelings. We don’t have to agree.

[DerwinBosa]

Let’s stipulate that it’s just one data point, and one game doesn’t prove any fact either way, But you say in the post that they tried to run the ball and play defense, and then you don’t understand how it proves you cant win by running the ball and playing great defense. Well, they didn’t win is how. They were Top 3 Defensive team with Top 7 rush game, but once they lost the ability to throw the ball they were toast. Not just normal toast, they were burnt black on both sides.

Too extreme an example? Maybe, maybe not. We don’t know. It could be the extreme example of our theory that you need to be able to pass to have a good offense and you need a good (pass) offense to win. The theory is that a great pass game is the keys to winning “modern football”. A good rush game and good defense are less important, which is not to say they don’t matter at all, of course they do. It means they are no longer enough if you face a team that has a great pass game.

This game doesn’t prove that theory, it is just consistent with the theory.

i’m more interested in analyses of why Buffalo collapsed so spectacularly at home vs CIN? They were just horrible, got beat like a drum despite being favored. They flat out got embarrassed. What happened there. Anyone?

No team can win a game if you take one element of its offense away completely. If the 49ers lost every halfback and fullback over the first 33 minutes of last year's NFC Championship Game, and Brock Purdy had to throw on every down from that point forward, the final score may have been even worse. If the 49ers had lost their entire starting front seven on defense, the Eagles would have been capable of scoring a hundred points.

The Bills didn't look good against the Dolphins the week before they lost to the Bengals. As far as what happened to the Bills against the Bengals, Cincinnati outrushed them 172-64, a week after the Bengals barely got by the Tyler Huntley-led Ravens with a 98-yard fumble return for a touchdown by Sam Hubbard. Just proves that even Joe Burrow, as great as he is as a top-five quarterback, needed his defense to save him from an embarrassing first-round exit and his running game to help dominate the Bills the following week.